Strength in Diversity, Weakness in One Party Rule? These Not So United States (CA Finale)
June 28, 2022 | Can California continue to be a beacon of opportunity for all Americans?
The Purple Principle completes its three-episode tour of the great state of California with three uniquely positioned viewpoints on the Golden State. Leon Panetta, one of the most experienced and respected elected officials to hail from California, opens and closes this finale.
Panetta is a former Cabinet Secretary and nine-term US Congress member who now heads The Panetta Institute for Public Policy at California State Monterey Bay.
“In my 50 years in politics,” says Panetta, a lifelong Democrat who values input and competition from across the aisle. “I’ve seen Washington at its best and its worst. And I think you can say the same for California.”
In discussion with TPP host Rob Pease and guest co-host Barbara Bogaev, Panetta questions the one party mindset of Democratic governance in California as well as the rightward populist tilt of the California GOP.
Our second guest, former State Assembly Minority Leader Kristin Olsen, led an effort beginning in 2018 to reform the Golden State GOP called “New Way California,” which ultimately failed to gain traction.
“I do think the money is out there. And I think the interest is out there,” says Olsen. “The challenge is there's so many of these small New Way California, problem solvers' efforts popping up all around the country and organizing them to work together is really difficult.”
Also in our finale is political satirist Andrew Heaton, California resident long enough to create the “best-selling” Los Angeles is Hideous: Poems About An Ugly City. L.A. resident and TPP guest co-host Barbara Bogaev quizzes Andrew on the depth and breadth of this enmity. And Rob Pease asks Heaton, who now lives in Austin, if his Texan neighbors view California as a rival state.
“Don't California, my Texas,” observes Heaton, “that is a frequent political bumper sticker here, which occasionally you'll see on cars from Florida.”
These and other surprises on our TPP’s California finale. Please tune in and review us on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app.
Original music by Ryan Adair Rooney
SHOW NOTES
Our Guests
Leon Panetta: Former Secretary of Defense and Director of the CIA for President Obama, White House Chief of Staff for President Clinton, and nine-term Member of Congress. Now the Co-Founder and Chairman of The Panetta Institute for Public Policy, and author of the memoir Worthy Fights.
Kristin Olsen: Former Republican Minority Leader of the California State Assembly, Board Member of New Way California, and current Partner at California Strategies. Olsen’s Twitter.
Andrew Heaton: Comedian and political satirist, host of The Political Orphanage podcast and author of books like Los Angeles is Hideous: Poems About An Ugly City. Heaton’s website, Twitter.
Additional Resources
Congressman Jimmy Panetta - California 20th Congressional District
Has the Golden State lost its luster? California population shrinks for the first time ever (L.A. Times)
'California Exodus': Why Are So Many People Leaving The Golden State? (WBUR)
Schwarzenegger and Kasich back Republicans looking for a ‘new way’ for California’s party (L.A. Times)
Activists claim credit for California GOP shakeup, but ex-leader warns about ‘infighting’ (The Sacramento Bee)
Newsom apologizes for French Laundry dinner, says he will practice what he preaches on COVID-19 (L.A. Times)
Don't California My Texas—History of a Polarizing Phrase (ReformAustin)
The Panetta Institute for Public Policy - Programs and Events
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Transcript
Leon Panetta
We've had entertainment. We've had Silicon Valley, great technology. We've had tourism, we've had agriculture. I mean, this is a state that really has a strong, diverse economy. And if you want California to continue to be a state that grows in the future, you've gotta take into consideration a lot of views.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
That’s likely a familiar voice to many of you: Leon Panetta. A major figure in both the Bill Clinton and Barack Obama administrations. But before the Executive branch, Panetta represented a Northern California district in the U.S. Congress for nine terms. I’m Robert Pease, and this is the Purple Principle, a podcast about the perils of polarization.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
And I’m Barbara Bogaev. Leon Panetta is one of our three very different but we hope complementary perspectives in this episode. It’s our third in our 3-part series on the challenges facing the nation's largest state and my home. Later on we’ll speak with Kristen Olsen, former Republican leader of the State Assembly. She took on those challenges by trying to form a new California GOP distinct from the national party:
Kristen Olsen
And we found our number one problem wasn't necessarily the party's position on issues at that time. It was that they didn't like Republicans and didn't want to vote for Republicans because Californians didn't think we liked them!
Robert Pease (Co-host)
Also on the show today is Andrew Heaton, self-exiled satirical poet of Los Angeles now resident in Austin Texas. Andrew tells us what inspired his book, Los Angeles is Hideous: Poems About An Ugly City.
Andrew Heaton
A funny coffee table book about Los Angeles took me three weeks and 60 milligrams of Adderall to write. And it was by far the most popular, successful book I've ever written– far more popular than novels that take years of blood and sweat to write…
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
More on that later. Let’s start on a different wavelength with Leon Panetta. He remembers a much more bipartisan spirit in national and California politics. Panetta was first elected to Congress during the U.S. bicentennial year of 1976.
(enter interview)
Leon Panetta
But it was a time when Republicans and Democrats worked together on a number of issues. And as a result I think really created some landmark legislation with regards to the water projects in California, but also the educational institutions in California. And it worked well. It worked well.
What's happened is that California, like the rest of the country, has become increasingly polarized. I've often said in my public career of over 50 years, I've seen Washington at its best and Washington at its worst. I think you could probably say the same thing for California.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
Yeah, it is unfortunate. And I believe you are watching your son who represents that district deal with some of those issues.
Leon Panetta
Well, Jimmy is a really perfect example of somebody who's seen both sides of this equation. He was a young intern really in the State Department, came back and lived with me at the time I was living with three other members of Congress. And we made a point of going out, having dinner with Republicans who joined us. We would go on trips with Republicans. We played basketball with Republicans. We had a good relationship, and Jimmy saw that and he saw how that interpreted out into my ability to get things done as a member of Congress.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
There is some press and we think some reputable press, not just, you know, some right wing talking points about California losing some luster in recent time. It had, you know, a lot of luster for many decades. But recently there's some concerns about housing prices and taxes and regulations, some major companies leaving.
Leon Panetta
Here in California, the fact is we really only have one governing party right now. And the Republicans while they're present in Sacramento, their number is so small that not much attention is paid to the Republicans, and they become more extreme in their politics, reflecting what's happened to the Republican Party on the national scene.
And if you want California to continue to be a state that grows in the future, you've gotta take into consideration a lot of the views of business, the views of obviously workers, the views of those who have major elements in our economy. I mean, the important thing about California is we've had a diverse economy that’s one of our great strengths, because we're a diverse people.
Our education system at the K-8 and high school years is not up to what it should be in a state like California. We're now near the bottom in terms of the quality of education we're providing our children. So the result is that the California dream, which is what I lived as a boy, and I'm the son of immigrants. I had a chance to live that dream, which meant the ability to have a better life. That's a dream that a lot of young people these days are feeling like they're not gonna be able to achieve.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
Yeah. Well, I think there's obviously a lot of intelligent, well connected people who agree with you and have made efforts to try and create a stronger Republican party in California. I'm thinking about the New Way effort by Schwartzenegger and others to create a more moderate California GOP with, you know, less connection to the national party. Were you surprised that that effort didn't really go very far?
Leon Panetta
Yeah, I was. Because I frankly think that, you know, I know a lot of Republicans in the Monterey area. You know, a lot of them are businessmen. A lot of them very practical individuals who really want to do the best for their community and for the state. And what I sensed was that, you know, and I thought Schwartzenegger tried to do the right thing, but for some reason, they weren't able to build the kind of strong coalition they needed.
I mean, the Republicans have to make a basic decision. Do they just wanna become the lost party in California, and take on the Trump Big Lie, and preach these conspiratorial theories that are crazy and nuts? Or do they wanna be able to ultimately get a piece of the action in California and be able to impact on policy in this state? If Republicans are gonna do that, they have got to be able to reach out and understand that California is gonna be a state in which immigration plays a large role, They're gonna have to reach out to minorities. They're gonna have to reach out to women. And if they could build that kind of coalition, mark my words, they could represent a power for the future. But if they're just going to stay on, on the right wing of, of the country, on the cliff side and not move, then the Republicans will never be a force in California.
(Exit interview)
Robert Pease (Co-host)
That’s former 9 term Northern Californian Congressmember, Leon Panetta, a lifelong Democrat, bemoaning polarization and one party governance in the Golden State in recent times. We’ll hear his thoughts on future challenges for California in just a moment.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
But first we’re gonna expand on that discussion of the New Way effort back in 2018. Our former Governor Arnold Schwarzenneger, a moderate Republican, endorsed New Way that year when he saw that Trumpian populism had overtaken the national GOP. And it seemed like the California GOP could follow his lead, maybe.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
But New Way just did not take off. We wanted to learn how the effort was formed and why it failed to get traction. So we reached out to one of the leaders of that New Way effort, former Minority Leader of The California State Assembly, Kristin Olsen.
(Enter interview)
Kristin Olsen
New Way California started those of us who worked to build it and grow. It started with the premise that a healthy democracy really requires two or more robust, healthy political parties, right? As Arthur Brooks often says, we don't need less disagreement. We need better disagreement. We need people from different perspectives, different ideologies, sitting around a table, talking about their different opinions on a particular public policy matter so that the ultimate solution is a better solution that serves a greater number of people, right? So that's the premise we went with. And at the same time, the context in California was a deteriorating Republican party losing more and more elections, statewide and federally, and just an unhealthy dynamic where they didn't have the ability to compete with their ideas in the public policy stage.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
Kristin, I'd like to dig into that because at the time that you were thinking about the break and starting New Way, you said in a press interview that you didn't have the logistical support needed from the party on a project to develop solution focused leadership and messaging focused on everyday Californians to help expand the GOP's shrinking ranks. So could you unpack that for us and get specific? What was this project and, and what did you feel, how did you feel unsupported and what did the party take issue with?
Kristin Olsen
Yeah, and, you know, it was sort of a back and forth whether they were excited about it or supportive of it or not. And ultimately they weren't. But it started when I was the minority leader, the Republican leader of the California state assembly and at the same time was on the California Republican party board. And we undertook a project to really test, you know, what do voters care about? What is their view of the Republican Party? Because until we know what the problem is, we don't know how to go about fixing it. And we found our number one problem wasn't necessarily the party's position on issues at that time. It was that they didn't like Republicans and didn't want to vote for Republicans because Californians didn't think we liked them. Well, that's a big problem, right? If a voter feels—
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
I would think so.
Kristin Olsen
—Unliked, right, by an elected official or a candidate, they're not gonna give us the time of day to listen to our policy ideas. And so there was this fear on the board that if we changed the status quo in any way that we were instead abandoning our principles. And it sounds crazy when I repeat it, but it was a really strong dynamic. And so those of us who really wanted to try to continue to push this forward and advance this effort forward, did it outside of the party through New Way California, in a way that we thought would compliment their efforts - and build a lot of momentum, as you said, we had governor Schwarzenegger involved John Kasich involved, and put on some really good summit. But ultimately we found we could not overcome an increasingly toxic national Republican brand.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
Yeah. Well, Kristen, it seems to us, uh, that in some ways you were trying, you were asking people to change political identities and we know identity is very deep rooted. <laugh> Not easy to change. We'd like to play a quote from a neuroscientist that we had on the show, Jay Van Bavel, who's a real expert in the nature of political identity. He recently co-authored a book, The power of Us.
(Look back audio to Jay Van Bavel)
Jay Van Bavel (look back)
And there's been a couple studies where they have looked at what happens when certain cults predict the end of the world. And they've been able to study, you know, what happens the day that the, that prediction doesn't come true? What you might expect is that cult members should update their beliefs. The should be like “Oh my goodness, this cult was totally wrong. What was I thinking? I’ve got to rebuild my life and I’ve got to leave this cult.” But that's not what happens. In fact, a couple studies that have gone into these cults and looked at these cult members have found if anything, the opposite happens. They immediately start to look for rationalizations. And so in that situation, they actually double down on this identity they have with this cult.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
But did you bump up against that? People who, you know, perhaps on a, on a conscious level, they respected what you're trying to do, but on a deep subconscious level, their identities were just too deeply formed?
Kristin Olsen
Very much so. When we got down into communities, talking with everyday voters, everyday people, we didn't encounter that much. On the contrary, we found they were so grateful that somebody was working to relate to everyday people and their everyday problems. Right? But when we talked to party activists, those who were really active in party politics for a long time at the local or state level, we absolutely encountered that dynamic. And it's fascinating to me because as the author said, you would think with that new information, they would update their beliefs about something, but on the contrary, they really did dig in and double down. And as I've spent so much time over the last several years, thinking about this, I think so much of it is rooted in fear, fear of loss. And I think this fear dynamic is part, of if not the majority, of what's leading to greater and greater polarization in American politics. And I think so many elected officials and candidates respond to it, on both sides, by ridiculing and dismissing people's fears instead of taking a seat back and saying talk to me about that.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
Let's keep talking about New Way. So it's, it's fascinating and brave that you tried to do this. How did you go about organizing the effort? What was the process?
Kristin Olsen
It started with a small group of us, maybe about five people initially getting our heads around a table saying, what do we wanna be? Do we wanna be a Republican group that's fixing the Republican party? Do we wanna be a group of Republicans, independents and Democrats that's working on just fixing political structures and dialogue and public discourse? So we've had many, many meetings trying to figure that out. And at least in our, you know, first couple of years we decided let's try to fix the Republican Party. And then we went through this phase saying, okay, that's not really working. So can we bring, you know, democratic elected officials in with us who are like-minded in the need for improving public discourse, improving public policy making.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
Well, Kristen I guess the question is is there enough money out there for efforts like this? It seems there’s just not a lot of centrist billionaires, if you will.
Kristin Olsen
I do think the money is out there. And I think the interest is out there. Part of the challenge I believe is there's so many of these small, common sense party, New Way California, problem solvers' efforts popping up all around the country and organizing them to work together is really difficult.
And I think the latest primaries illustrate that. We had a couple of people running as independents in high profile races, one for governor, one for attorney general and the attorney general candidate in particular raised quite a bit of money. But what we found on the ballot, she did not do well at all. And what we found is even though I believe most voters are in this centrist place. They want to see leaders who aren't beholden to one political party or another. They want to see leaders who are going to do what's good for California, what's good for America, independent of their political stripes and party affiliations.
But how do you get to know those people? Most people who are voting see names on a ballot, see a D or an R or No Party Preference next to them. And at least with the D or R, they have a general idea of what those people stand for. Whereas they see No Party Preference, and unless they've heard from that particular candidate, which again, most voters aren't going to be able to do in a state, nation state of 40 million people. They don't know what they stand for. So it's a safer bet to vote for what they know. And I think ultimately that's the challenge centrists are facing if they work outside of the party structures is it's extraordinarily difficult to reach people, uh, to such an extent that they know what you stand for and are willing to trust you with their vote.
(Exit interview)
(ad break)
Robert Pease (Co-host)
We’ve been speaking with former State Assembly Minority Leader Kristin Olsen. She was one of the founders of the New Way effort to form a distinct California GOP that failed to overcome our two party mindset.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
Yeah, there were some real branding challenges when they reached out to moderate Democrats and Indies.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
And our first California episode guest, Dan Schur, concurs with Kristen’s comments about the challenges for candidates running without major party backing.
(Look back audio to Dan Schnur)
Dan Schnur (look back)
I became the first independent, the first No Party Preference candidate ever to run for statewide office in the state of California. And there were a few days when I thought I'd make history. But on most days I thought the best I could do is maybe make it easier for the second, no party preference candidate <laugh> to run for statewide office in California.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
One thing I really appreciate about Dan Schnur is he always keeps his sense of humor. And you can definitely say that about our next guest, Andrew Heaton. He’s libertarian leaning and a former Congressional staffer. He calls himself one of the top 3 American comedians influenced by the Economist Milton Friedman.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
Besides those distinctions, Andrew Heaton is also the author of an unusual guide book to your city, Barbara…. it’s called Los Angeles is Hideous– Poems About An Ugly City.
(Enter interview)
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
Andrew, I really would love to start with a quote from your book of poems.
Andrew Heaton
mm-hmm <affirmative>
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
which I really enjoyed…
Andrew Heaton
Thank you.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
And here's a good one for you: Los Angeles is a prison yard with sparklers, chugging champagne beneath an overpass, a public toilet with a boob job, Instagram filters on a dead harlot….Andrew, really, I don't know why you hold back. You should tell us how you really feel.
Andrew Heaton
<laughs> Well, you know, a lot of people can't tell, but I actually am not a fan of Los Angeles. And I don't know if that came through in the poem. Barbara, can I tell you the funny thing about that? I've written several books. And I would imagine that probably everybody on your show's written a book and you interview authors all the time. They’re a lot of work. A funny coffee table book about Los Angeles took me three weeks and 60 milligrams of Adderall to write.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
<laughs>
Andrew Heaton
And, it was by far the most popular, successful book I've ever written. Far more popular than novels that take years of blood and sweat to write. Instead I wrote that it got to number one on Poetry on Amazon, which I believe, at this point, means I am now a more successful poet than I am comedian or lover! Which is not what I thought I would be doing at this point in my life, but I'll take it.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
<laugh> So, that's L.A.
Andrew Heaton
Hmm-mmm.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
Does your just mild distaste extend to the whole state of California?
Andrew Heaton
No, it doesn't. I do think there are…I think there's lots of good and bad things about California. And the things that I don't like about California are largely pretty much zoning laws, to be honest with you. I am one of those dorks, and for your audience that doesn't know who I am, I used to work on Capitol Hill. I'm a think tank fellow. I'm also a comedian. I am in the unenviable position of being pretty funny, but not funny enough to make a full-time living at it. So I shifted into being a fairly comedic policy analyst.
With California, I think the zoning laws are real bad in California and, and I think they actually are directly related to why Los Angeles is so horrible, because there were all of these old, racist laws that were put in place that forced the city to grow out rather than grow up.
And, I do take a lot of umbrage with that kind of thing. And I think that a significant amount of the serious housing issues in California are just the results of very poor systems at work that have not been fixed. But those are my big problems with it. I want to give a shout out to California. California has open primaries, which I think is brilliant. I would love for more states to do that. I think that that would do quite a lot in terms of mitigating the polarization we're seeing right now. I would expand it to four or five— top five in the open primary, like Alaska, but all the same.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
Rather than two.
Andrew Heaton
Exactly. But even then, like I'm from Oklahoma, right? Oklahoma's the holster of the Bible belt. It's very, very conservative. So I know in Oklahoma that the Democrat is generally gonna be an ornamental token character who's running against the person who won the Republican primary. The Republican primary is the real election that takes place in the state. Well, I'm not a Republican, I can't participate in that. So I would love the ability for the Republicans, or the state as a whole, to yield the top two candidates who are both gonna be Republicans. And at least let me pick between the two that would be —or in California same thing.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
And you put a lot of emphasis on communication. So How do you think California, the Governor, the Health Department, the Health Commissioner, everyone, the media; what grades do you give on, on how well they communicated the need for COVID measures and restrictions that some here in California, especially in Orange County, found so onerous?
Andrew Heaton
So I don't know anything about the California Department of Health. I can't speak to that. I can speak to Governor Newsom a little bit. I was not impressed with him. I think during a pandemic, it's incredibly important that the people that are leading the charge need to have public trust. And that means that the government, and the people that are running it need to be honest with you and forthright on that. I think that it is an extremely ineffective, if not morally heinous position to lie to people for their own good when it comes to a situation like that, because that undermines and erodes public trust.
I mean, the really big one is the, uh, going to a donor dinner, uh, without a mask at a time when you were not supposed to go to restaurants at all. The interpretation I got was, well, I'm a smart guy and these laws don't really apply to me. They apply to the hoi-polloi, the hoi-polloi need to worry about masks and these things like that. But on our end, you know, we're kind of exempt from this. And I thought that that was a really bad thing for both his support and also just other people supporting his endeavors.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
Yeah. Well, Andrew, you talked a little bit about, moving to Texas from California and arguably Austin is not representative of the rest of Texas. But we're just curious, having lived in both places, do you hear Texans stereotyping or caricaturing Californians? And did you hear the opposite when you were there? Because there is this kind of cultural and economic rivalry between these two enormous states.
Andrew Heaton
Well, I should say like, Texas has a bone to pick with California specifically. Like you, you will see signs in Texas that say ”Don't California, my Texas” like that's a frequent political bumper sticker here, which occasionally you'll see on cars from Florida, which <laugh>, which I find kind of odd.
The number one demographic of people moving to Austin are other Texans. The second demographic of people moving to Austin is Florida, which you never hear anything about. And the third one is people from California. But nonetheless, the Texans ire tends to be for California. When I was in California, you know, I should say I did not hear anything from California specifically geared towards Texas.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
California, doesn't think about Texas, Robert.
Andrew Heaton
Right? Exactly.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
Just isn't a thing.
Andrew Heaton
And I don't think the rest of the country thinks about Texas as much as Texas does. When I lived in New York, I was amazed at the amount of rancor and naked bitter condescension that was aimed at people from the South. But I will say that having now worked in political media for several years, I do not see any benefit at all to contempt. I have never seen contempt do anything to enlighten anybody, change their mind, turn down the emotions in the room or lead to a positive result. And there is this contempt from Texas towards California. There is this contempt from the blue states towards the red states. And it's, it's not helping.
I'll add to this, this, the, the thing that surprised me culturally in California, that I had not anticipated during the brief amount of time I was, there was I would have a conversation with someone who was an overt Democrat, who probably voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary and voted for Hillary Clinton back in the day. And multiple times I would have somebody look past me as if they were about to say something racist, and then would go, I think the wokeness has gone a little too far. And it felt, from my perspective, I'm like, we're in your Vatican. Like we're in Los Angeles. Like, we're in your capital. You should feel very comfortable. Yeah. So like, why that surprised me cause you don't see that in, in Austin. Like you don't like people don't like, I think, uh, you know, actually we should wear masks. Like people are just a little more full-throated about whatever their opinions are.
[Exit interview]
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
Satirist and Milton Friedman fan Andrew Heaton and about that last point, I think it stands to reason that an ultra liberal and trendy city like LA is going to provoke some backlash. I mean the Turmeric milk lattes in every cafe alone are way too “woke” for some people…
Robert Pease (Co-host)
So maybe there’s an episode to be done on polarizing lattes, Barbara. But for now let's return to our conversation with Leon Panetta about some partisan trends he sees in young Californians attending the non-partisan Panetta Institute for Public Policy. That’s at Cal State Monterey Bay. We spoke with him about those interactions and his concerns for the future for California and the nation as we polarize and stereotype across the divide.
[Enter interview]
Leon Panetta
I tell the students here at the Panetta Institute, that in a democracy, we govern either by leadership or by crisis. If leadership is there and willing to take the risks associated with leadership, then we can deal with crisis. We can control crisis. But if that leadership is not there, then we'll govern by crisis. And too often we govern by crisis. So what do we need? We need leaders who are willing to make tough decisions that are in the interest of the country. They have got to put the nation and the state ahead of party. That's the key. And yeah, are you gonna offend people in your own party? You're damn right, but that's what leadership's all about.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
Yeah, well, California is certainly not alone in having, you know, what's called a trifecta one party control over all the chambers and mansions at one time. There's 37 of them in the US right now. And that number could increase next election. So what would be lost to state politics and national politics, if all 50 states become trifectas?
Leon Panetta
Well, you know, I'm afraid we're gonna— in the absence of leadership, I think that's what we're gonna go through. We're gonna go through a lot of parties breaking up. There'll be deep divisions within the states and there'll be deep divisions within the country. And this polarization that we're experiencing today will only get worse.
What's demanded here are leaders who are willing to provide a vision that reaches Americans, the average American, the average Californian. And that's what you have to keep in mind. I mean, who are the effective presidents? The presidents who were able to reach the average American. Franklin Roosevelt, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, was able to do that. And California's the same. Our best governors were governors who could reach the ordinary Californian with a vision as to where California needed to go.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
But the same time, there's a lot of young people, perhaps at the Panetta Institute, you're giving talks like this. There's a lot of young people who have seen no compromise in their lifetime, who just see two parties who are just constantly performative and, and have no interest in legislating.
Leon Panetta
You are absolutely right. And I've seen it in students. I mean, we have one course at the Panetta Institute where we bring law students down and, uh, what I call it is the, is I'm trying to, to teach them the art of governing. And I tell 'em pick an issue, immigration, healthcare, uh, the debt, whatever, and give me the Republican viewpoint, give me the Democratic viewpoint. And then tell me what a compromise would look like. And I've had students say to me, I don't wanna give the, I don't want to look at the Republican viewpoint. And I said, no, that's not the way it works. You're gonna have to give me the Republican viewpoint. You're gonna have to give me the Democratic viewpoint. And then you're gonna have to give me a consensus position. What would a compromise look like? And I say, you know what is? That's called governing. That's how we govern.
I mean, young people don't know what compromise is because they haven't had leadership that engages in that process of give and take. And so they always assume that it it's all about causes. It's all about ideology, it's all about taking a particular position, then beating somebody over the head. Rather than listening to one another, and trying to work out the kind of solution that can solve the problems we face.
We have a lot of work to do, with our, with our kids, with our students, in order to give them the tools they're gonna need when they have to assume leadership in our democracy. And frankly, we're not providing a very good example right now. And that's what scares me the most.
[Exit interview]
Robert Pease (Co-host)
Leon Panetta knows a thing or two about governance, as a cabinet member, a White House Chief of Staff, and a 9-term California Congress member from what was then a fairly purplish district in a purplish state.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
He’s echoing there what our first California episode guest Joel Kotikin also observed in his 50 years living in and writing about the state:
(Look back audio to Joel Kotkin)
Joel Kotkin (look back)
When I came here in 1971 we had a two party system and within that two party system, there were moderate and conservative factions. There was great deal of debate. And we were usually able to find some sort of ability to make decent policy here in California, based on some degree of rationality. In the last 20 to 30 years, and particularly in the last 10, the state has become essentially a one party state.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
But the recent California primaries could signal a bit of a shift. Some centrist candidates from both parties, many of them Latinos, they’ve made it to the general elections in November. Could they be able to draft and negotiate some legislation to more broadly address economic challenges in California? Inequality, affordability, homelessness? We’ll be covering that in our Hispanic Swing Voter Series this fall featuring some exceptionally insightful Latino experts such as recent Pulitzer Prize winner Maria Hinojosa.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
But now I'd like to thank all of our California guests on this series for their insights into our nation’s largest state. It’s been a beacon for decades to young people, to immigrants, to entrepreneurs, although according to many of the guests, the jury’s out if it will stay that way…
Robert Pease (Co-host)
And certainly, Northern California has been the spawning ground of so much venture funded tech innovation over the decades. That has now been emulated around the US and worldwide. Let’s hope the Golden State can apply some of that innovative thinking to some very deep real world issues.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
Yes but Robert, I’d really like to thank you and the Purple Principle team for having me on for this series. It's been such a pleasure.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
Oh please, Barbara, all thanks to you. But, we’re not done with you yet. So much more came out of that interview with Andrew Heaton.
Barbara Bogaev (Co-host)
<laughs> Oh man, yes, you can say that again. I guess he certainly deserves his own episode – which is what he’ll get… it’ll drop in July, when The Purple Principle celebrates Independence Day for the whole month!
[Look ahead audio to Andrew Heaton]
Andrew Heaton (look ahead)
I am an independent. I am ethnically a Republican, because I'm from Oklahoma, but I worked on the hill as Democrat. I got really into libertarian stuff for a while. I still have leanings that are that way, but I am an independent. I'd say I am a temperamental moderate who wants to help people, but thinks the government's not very effective at it.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
And we’re also observing Independence Day month with the refreshingly unpredictable Amy Chua, She’s next up on the Purple Principle. Possibly best known as Tiger Mom for that provocative best seller. But Professor Chua’s more recent book, Political Tribes, that’s truly one of the best explorations of political polarization ever written.
[Look ahead audio to Amy Chua]
Amy Chua (Look ahead)
I said in Political Tribes that we actually had an advantage. That we do not have to pick between, you know, patriotism and having a really strong national identity and multiculturalism, we can actually have both, you could have thriving sub-identities and still a really strong American identity. And I think, you know, in some ways both prongs are being challenged right now.
Robert Pease (Co-host)
We really hope you’ll join us for these episodes, and support us on Patreon or Apple Subscriptions as we develop more state focused episodes and produce our series on Hispanic swing voters. Thanks for listening from the entire Purple Principle team. All music composed and created by Ryan Adair Rooney. The Purple Principle is a Fluent Knowledge production.