Celebration & Polarization, Holiday Survival Kit (Part 2): When Anti-Science Makes the Menu
November 30th 2021
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It’s tempting to think of anti-science sentiments, such as the current pushback against COVID vaccination, as the disparate sum of misinformed individuals. But Lee McIntyre, author of the recent book How to Talk To A Science Denier has found otherwise.
“All science denial is really organized. It’s a campaign,” explains McIntyre. “And as a campaign, it deserves some pushback, which is what I do.”
In this Purple Principle Part Two of our Holiday Survival Kit: When Anti-Science is on the Menu, we learn from Lee McIntyre how artful pushback must be to reach skeptical counterparts with identities defined by anti-science belief.
In the episode, we first discuss Lee’s background in the philosophy of science, then his decision to leave the relative comfort of scholarly research to engage with science deniers. Here he learns firsthand the surprisingly common elements across such disparate groups as flat earthers, GMO skeptics, and anti-vaxxers.
“They all followed the same reasoning strategy,” McIntrye tells us. “They cherry-picked facts, believed in conspiracy theories, engaged in illogical reasoning, relied on fake experts, and thought that science had to be perfect in order to be believed.”
Co-hosts Jillian Youngblood and Rob Pease then put Lee to the test, applying these tropes while role-playing the anti-vaxxer cousins Lee asks to consider vaccination before the holiday family gatherings. The resulting pushback from Lee is non-confrontational yet quick to point out illogic and deception.
Anti-Vax cousin Rob points out how the science has changed regarding the benefits of aspirin, to which McIntyre replies, “But you know what they’re not going to change their mind about: COVID sucks. COVID will kill you.” And to anti-vax Cousin Jillian, McIntyre gently chides, “Why do you trust some folks on Instagram you’ve never met to be an accurate reporter of whatever it was that got them sick?”
Do you have friends, colleagues, or family members prone to anti-science beliefs? Have you struggled to engage with them constructively without anger or scorn? Then join us on Episode Two of the Celebration & Polarization, Holiday Survival Kit: When Anti-Science Makes the Menu for helpful insights from Philosopher of Science, Lee McIntyre. His latest book, How to Talk to a Science Denier, comes at a time when these difficult discussions are vital to our families, our workplaces, and our democracy.
Lee McIntyre is the second guest in our three-part Holiday Survival Kit.
SHOW NOTES
Our Guests
Lee McIntyre: Website, Twitter
How to Talk to a Science Denier: Conversations with Flat Earthers, Climate Deniers, and Others Who Defy Reason: Purchase
Additional Resources
Fact Checks
The CDC does not recommend wearing a face mask outdoors unless you are in a large gathering or in close proximity.
While there have been some published studies that were interpreted as suggesting GMOs may be harmful to health if ingested, other scientists have pointed out the errors in the methods or interpretation, and the general scientific consensus is that consuming GMOs has not been shown to be harmful to health.
Documented reports of missed menstrual cycles after COVID vaccine administration are common enough that it is currently under investigation. However, typically menstruation returns after one missed cycle and there has yet to be any evidence that Covid vaccines affect fertility. Missed menstruation is also common amongst women who have had COVID.
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TRANSCRIPT
Lee McIntyre
I was kind of happily doing my scholarly work until the world went a little crazy and people started to attack science. And then after they got done with that, they started to attack facts in general. And that's when I felt like philosophers really needed more of a voice.
Robert Pease (co-host)
That’s the author Lee Mcintyre who spoke with Flat Earthers, anti-vaxxers, and some other big time skeptics for his latest book, How to Talk to a Science Denier.
Lee McIntyre
I've since come to realize that all science denial is really organized; it's got a purpose and it's not really a mistake. It's a campaign. And as a campaign, it deserves some pushback, which is what I do.
Robert Pease (co-host)
And Lee McIntyre will be pushing back on two podcast hosts today as we role-play a difficult holiday conversation on vaccination and family gatherings. This is the Purple Principle, a podcast about political — and in this episode — scientific polarization. I’m Robert Pease.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
And I’m Jillian Youngblood, co-host here and Executive Director of Civic Genius, always keen to play devil’s advocate if it might in some small way illuminate people’s thinking.
Robert Pease (co-host)
So much progress on COVID, but there’s new variants out there and we’re not out of the woods yet. I’ll share a little bit of what happened in my family when we let our guard down recently. But first let’s get to know Dr. Lee McIntyre, prolific author and research fellow at Boston University.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Starting with the different science denial targets that all have some important, common threads.
[Enter Interview]
Lee McIntyre
There are different forms of science denial — different topics, I should say. There's evolution denial, there's anti-vax, you know, both pre- and post-COVID. There's Flat Earth, there's climate denial. It started — modern science denial — with tobacco: them claiming — the tobacco executives claiming — that cigarettes didn't cause lung cancer. Now, in that case and with climate denial, it was really economic interests. So sometimes people create doubt where there isn't any because it really serves their financial interests quite well. But then you look at something like anti-vax before COVID, I mean, that wasn't even really political. Some people didn't trust Big Pharma, some people didn't trust big corporations, but left and right there were anti-vaxxers. Now that one has been politicized.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
So why would an anti-science identity would be appealing for someone?
Lee McIntyre
Well, remember it's not an “anti-science identity,” it's a pro- whatever the other thing is identity that science happens to be stepping on. So that, you know, that's maybe the narrow area where they react. And it's really fascinating, isn't it? That people have that problem because it makes you wonder if your own beliefs are the same way. Are all beliefs just based on identity? And I think, “No, no, no. Some of my beliefs are based on evidence because I've changed my mind on the basis of evidence. And that's what you're supposed to do when you're rational.” But yes, the thing that I've noticed in speaking with science deniers and in reading accounts of them is that their mistaken beliefs are not just what they happen to believe, it's who they are. So when you attack the belief, you're attacking them as a person. And so you can see why you have to be sort of delicate about it because it's like attacking somebody's religion or their politics.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Yeah. I mean the flip side of it — sorry, I live in Seattle and I don't always wear a mask when I'm outside and there are no people around, like nobody, you know, nobody around in you’re in the open air. And it’s interesting: here people walking down the street — even if it is not a busy street — wear masks almost exclusively. And it feels sometimes even like the flip side of that identity question where it's like you're signaling in a different way and kind of over — the science, as far as I know, suggests you don't need to wear a mask if you're by yourself and you're outside.
Lee McIntyre
That is a very interesting observation. If you're in a community that you know is a pro-vaccine community but you are one of the first people to get the vaccination — and so you didn't have to wear a mask — was there ever a time when you put on that mask because you didn't want to signal to them, “I'm an anti-vaxxer, I'm not one of you,” so you put on the mask, even though you didn't need it. That too is identity.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Yeah. I did it for months and we didn't want to be ostracized at the playground. It's so interesting. I was wondering if you could talk about — you had a conversation with coal miners about global warming — and I was wondering if you could tell us about that conversation.
Lee McIntyre
This was terrific. Just from a human level, it was very interesting to me because I had gone in there thinking that people who made their living mining coal would probably be less likely to, you know, believe that climate change was true. And they burst every expectation that I had. And, you know, had said, “Look, you know, I've got grandchildren. I think that climate change is real. I think that our community is, or, you know, our earth is in trouble or, you know, our world is in trouble.” And then I asked the tough question of one of them. I still remember. I said, “How do you justify in your mind every day, going down in the mine and doing something that you know is hurting the world that your grandchildren are going to inherit?” And he said, “You got to understand coal miners are fatalistic. I go down to that mine every day, thinking it might be my last day on earth. So if I'm willing to do that…” you know, you don't even need to finish the sentence. You understand: he’s got to put food on the table tonight. And that's when I realized, too, that it's not just the deniers who are victims, it's other folks, right? I had a lot more empathy for people in the mining industry after those conversations.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Yeah, [laughs] yeah. It's bleak. So tell us about Ted, which is another person you met — another conversation you had — who's a scientist and a GMO (genetically modified food) alarmist.
Lee McIntyre
I liked the way you described that “alarmist” because he's not a denier. This was a guy I've known for 40 years, so it wasn't as if I didn't know him. It wasn't a stranger, but I never talked to him about GMOs. But because of COVID, the research for my book came to a grinding halt. So I called my friend Ted and asked him — and he's a scientist, but he's also really, really far left — and then we started talking about GMOs. And like I said, he was not a denier, but he was concerned. And, you know, he, he raised some really good points for me about industry concerns, corporate concerns, et cetera, et cetera. But the one thing that I was ready on — the one thing I had really done my homework on — was the literature about whether or not GMOs were dangerous to eat, which they're not — or there has never been any study which has provided scientific evidence that they're dangerous to eat. The book was really about conversations. I prefer to have them face-to-face. This one was, you know, over-the-phone because it had to be, but we really pushed one another. And you know, one point that I make in my book is in order to get through to somebody, you have to trust them. And it's pretty hard to build trust with a stranger, but with Ted, we already trusted one another, which meant that we were really hard on each other. I mean, to the point of almost insulting — as the transcript is in the book, right? He gave as good as he got to me.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
So you attended the Flat Earth convention a while ago, which I think Rob is going to talk about in a little bit, and I'm excited to hear about. But curious, if other than that, have you had firsthand experiences with this kind of mistrust and science denial in your personal life?
Lee McIntyre
Well, I have, but it's a little painful to talk about because in some cases it involves family and I can't really out [laughs] that. But yes, I've seen this — not just firsthand conversations with strangers, but with others. And I get plenty of mail, which I usually engage with if it's not too terrible. And so, you know, I, I hear the same sorts of things about different topics. And, you know, years ago, there were some researchers, Mark and Chris Hoofnagle, brothers who came up with the idea — really a fabulous idea — that all science denial was the same: whatever the topic they all followed, the same reasoning strategy. They all cherry-picked facts, believed in conspiracy theories, engaged in illogical reasoning, relied on fake experts, and thought that science had to be perfect in order to be believed: those five tropes. Anytime I've ever encountered any form of science denial, I just mentally go through those five tropes and think, “Yep, there it is.”
[Exit Interview]
Robert Pease (co-host)
That’s our special guest today, Lee McIntyre, research fellow in the History and Philosophy of Science at Boston University and author most recently of How to Talk to a Science Denier, which in this roleplay part of the episode will be Jillian, playing “Anti-vax Cousin Jillian.”
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
And Rob playing “Cousin Anti-almost Everything Rob.” We’ll be cherry-picking facts...
Robert Pease (co-host)
...promoting conspiracy theories...
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
...reasoning illogically and relying on fake experts...
Robert Pease (co-host)
...and expecting science to be perfect, then dismissing it when it falls short.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
I’m ready and dangerous.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Here, then, is Anti-science Jillian fielding the call from Cousin Lee McIntyre and that most sensitive of family questions this season, “Have you been vaccinated?”
[Enter Interview]
[Dial tone]
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
We all got sick last year anyway. So I think we're probably, you know, have certainly got some natural immunity anyway. And I just feel like our bodies are always overcoming viruses and, you know, bodies are magical like that. So we've decided not to get vaccinated at this point.
Lee McIntyre
Wow. Interesting. Do you know anybody who's had COVID?
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Yeah, I know a couple of people. And, you know, they were like — some people got — I know some people who got pretty sick — kind of like you get when you have the flu maybe. But, you know, I don't know anyone who didn't get over it.
Lee McIntyre
Wow. I know somebody who died of it. I mean that's one thing we've all learned in the past couple of months: that it's a bit of a lottery and just you're not sure how anybody's going to react. You don't know who's going to get it, who isn't, and how they're going to react when they get it.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Yeah. I guess that's true. I'm sorry about your friend. It's kind of strange to me that, you know, like — so I have a friend who did have COVID and now I think probably has some immunity to it. And I just think it's kinda crazy that she can't — you know, she can't go into a restaurant or a coffee shop in a lot of places now — even though she has immunity — because she hasn't gotten the vaccine. It just makes me wonder what the motivation is for trying to get everybody vaccinated.
Lee McIntyre
Yeah. Well, people are scared. Different people, you know, have different experiences and, you know, your friends got a perfect right not to get vaccinated, but she doesn't have a right to go anywhere she wants with no consequences as a result of it. Because, you know, other people have rights, too.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
So like I've heard a lot of women talking about their menstrual cycles changing after they get vaccinated. And it's not like one person, it seems to be really common. Everyone says that the vaccine’s safe, but you know, there are a lot of people talking about side effects that I'm not hearing any of the doctors talk about.
Lee McIntyre
Yeah. You know, the funny thing, I mean, I study science denial, I study... about... let's see, I just screwed up there. Didn't I Jillian?
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
I'm also doing the wrong voice. I realized I should probably be more like Southern California.
Lee McIntyre
Where I was going with this is that sometimes people get victimized by false information. And how do you know who to trust? Back in mode here: I guess the question that I'd say is why do you trust some folks on Instagram — who you've never met — to be, you know, an accurate reporter of whatever it was that got them sick, but you're not trusting your doctor who would probably tell you that you should get vaccinated?
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Maybe. I just think — I don't know. I've been emphasizing a lot what I eat and I'm really careful about what I put in my body. And I just feel like bodies are kind of magical and they know how to respond to all of these things that come their way. Like, I think that our whole health culture in this country is oriented in the wrong way. Like we don't really think about what makes us well, we just like take pills and shots for everything.
Lee McIntyre
Okay. So here I'd be very close to closing things up just because you don't want to go on too long in any one conversation, but I'd end with something for you to think about like this. I hope we get to see one another. But let me ask you this: what evidence — if I had it — would help you to make up your mind about the vaccine? What's really your number one concern that — if I could do a little research for you and send you something to read — you might be willing to read it and think about a little bit?
[Exit Interview]
Robert Pease (co-host)
That was author and philosopher Lee McIntyre roleplaying with fully-vaccinated Jillian here pretending to be a certain type of anti-vaxxer. But Jillian, I do have to commend one particular aspect of your performance: throwing menstrual cycles at Lee. That always trips up a guy.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
I will say that to prepare for this role, I did spend like five minutes on Instagram to see what people are worried about and that seems to be a big one. But social media’s not real life.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Hard to change one’s identity — even in role play — if real tragedy’s involved. I had the same problem playing a character who just casually rejects so much evidence. And I didn’t have menstrual cycles in my repertoire.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Should we talk about guy stuff for a minute to balance it out? Like do you want to talk about football again? I do think we covered that more than adequately in the last episode with Dr. Tania Israel actually. Let’s get back to the roleplaying game at hand: Lee McIntyre counseling Anti-vax Cousin Rob.
[Enter Interview]
Robert Pease (co-host)
Lee, I know why you're calling. I feel like I've had COVID, I'm not getting the vaccine. We're already talking about boosters. They don't have this down. So I'll just save your breath right there.
Lee McIntyre
There's nothing I could say to convince you to get the vaccine?...
Robert Pease (co-host)
Well, if you could say that, “We finally figured this out. You won't need a booster. You can get this one shot and it will prevent you 100% — not 90%, not 80%, not diminishing over time, not you'll need a booster next year...” I would think about it. But the story changes every few months.
Lee McIntyre
It's tough, right? Because they change their mind about whether eggs are good for you. They changed their mind about whether coffee is good for you. You don't know who to trust?
Robert Pease (co-host)
Exactly: aspirin. I was taking aspirin every day for 20 years. Now, “Don't take your aspirin.” It could be the same thing. They could be pulling this vaccine out of us at this time next year.
Lee McIntyre
But you know what? They're not going to change their mind about “COVID sucks. COVID will kill you.” I've got to say that if it's a personal choice, that means that you're also responsible for the consequences of the choice, but what happens when those consequences go out to other people?
[Exit Interview]
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
“Pulling this vaccine out of us this time next year.” Wow, Rob: full-on anti-science!
Robert Pease (co-host)
I am weirdly proud of that one line. But, again, it’s so difficult — even for a few minutes — to get into that identity. I’ve had 3 doses and I’m actually looking forward to a 4th. I know people who really struggled with COVID early on and I really helplessly watched my wife battle a breakthrough infection recently after we let our guard down and went to a wedding.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Oh, man. No precautions?
Robert Pease (co-host)
None. Zero. Like COVID was over. Which is what everyone wants to believe and also what’s keeping it around. So let’s leave roleplay behind and learn a bit more from Lee McIntyre on how to effectively address vaccine skepticism and science denial.
[Enter Interview]
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
One thing that really resonated with me that you write about regarding people who are resistant to getting the vaccine is that admitting uncertainty can actually increase trust, which is something I have found in my work at Civic Genius — and although it's kind of a slippery slope in conversation, it can be really effective. Could you talk a little bit about why that is an impactful way to have this kind of discussion?
Lee McIntyre
All science is uncertain to a degree. I mean, scientific beliefs are not based on proof or certainty. That's just not how science works. Now, deniers love that because they use that as grounds for saying, “Oh, well, you can't prove this. Then my view is just as credible as yours. So I'll believe what I want to believe.”
Well, no, because probability is still a thing. If there's a one-out-of-a-million chance that the climate deniers are right, that's not a good chance, right? It's an irrational thing to believe. So, you know, building trust is important. And in some of the vaccine conversations — there was a focus group by Frank Luntz, the famous Republican pollster, to try to find a message that was going to work on vaccines. And all 20 people in this focus group were Republicans who were — I don't want to say they were vaccine deniers, but they had not taken their vaccine and didn't plan to — and he was looking for a message that worked and just had a devil of a time finding one. And finally, the message that seemed to get through was when a scientist said, “Look, here's what we don't know, but here's what we do know…” just in the same way that I pitched it there. And they loved that because it didn't make them feel stupid. You say, “Well, you know, of course, you've got questions, scientists have questions too. Here's how we approached it. Here's what we found. Here's what the evidence showed us, by the way. Here's what we still don't know. And here's what we're continuing to work on…” because then that gives the other person that permission to say, “Oh, well, you know, if you could show this to this level of confidence, then maybe I would get my vaccine.”
Robert Pease (co-host)
It just seems like when we were watching, Behind the Curve, the movie about the Flat Earth Society, that we were watching people doubling down— they were being presented with facts, with evidence, they were doing experiments that weren't working, and they were doubling down. So when it is so central to your identity — when it is like your favorite thing in the world — and you're presented with that evidence, wouldn't it be natural to double down?
Lee McIntyre
Yeah. I saw that same film and it's incredible because they — and I mean I know this from firsthand conversations with Flat Earthers — they will tell you, “My view is not based on faith.
It's based on evidence and yes, we do experiments.” And so, “Bully! Go off and do the experiment.” What happens when the experiment doesn't go their way? [whispers] “Don't tell anybody,” right? That's not what a scientist would do, but if you say that — if you humiliate them — then you're never going to change their mind.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Well, good. You've seen Behind the Curve and we had the filmmakers Nick Andert and Daniel Clark on our show earlier this season. And we wanted to play for you this one quote from one of the scientists from Caltech, Spiros Michalakis. I think he made the most effort to speak with the Flat Earthers and to try and help them move beyond their beliefs.
[Archival audio - Behind the Curve]
Robert Pease (co-host)
And evidently society's lost a lot of people. So does that resonate with you?
Lee McIntyre
I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say that the problem is with the culture that has alienated them, but I will say this: it's not going to bring them back to be condescending or to make fun. I took one fellow out to dinner. And I mean, I liked him. I felt a kinship with this guy. I didn't agree with him about almost anything we talked about. But yes, I detected some sense of wanting to be part of a larger community, but that he felt rejected from. And I did not want to reject him, even when he said things that made me furious, not about Flat Earth, but about other topics, other conspiracy theories that made me absolutely furious. And I just made the decision, “You can't do it. You just — you know, it's going to feel good for two seconds. You can't do it.” So I didn't.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Yeah. Well, I have an upcoming guest who will kind of be part of this series with you, Dr. Tania Israel. She's a social psychologist at UC Santa Barbara, and she wrote a book, Beyond Your Bubble. She emphasizes the importance of a technique called “active listening” for discussions just like this.
[Archival audio - Tania Israel]
Often when we're having conversations, we are listening to respond rather than listening to understand. And so when we're listening to respond, somebody will say something that they think, and then we say what we think back. And that, you know, can be useful at times for an exchange of ideas, but especially when there's a situation where we may not have the trust built, where we really may be coming from very different perspectives, it doesn't help to move that conversation forward for us to do that. It can just get us sort of farther apart. So when somebody says what they think rather than coming back with what you think, you come back with what they think, reflecting back what they just said in a way. And it does a couple of things. One thing that that does is it helps them to feel like you understood them. And that is just a healing process in itself. It also makes sure that you did actually understand them.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Yeah, so Lee, we wondered if what Dr. Israel just said there, does that resonate with some of the challenging conversations you’ve had?
Lee McIntyre
Boy, does she hit it just exactly right! Because by listening to the other person they feel heard and they will sometimes also tell you what it would take to convince them, which is very useful information. And I confess, I knew a little bit about active listening, which I've learned about since I wrote the book — I really didn't know about it when I had written the book. But what happened is, after I wrote the book, I've been hearing about other people who are using this approach. And it's really been fascinating for me. It's like the light goes down low, and then you see all these other little campfires on the beach of all these other people who are doing the same thing: street epistemology, active listening, deprogramming people out of cults. And there's this wonderful literature, you know — you read Steve Hassan's work on cults — read Eli Saslow’s Rising Out of Hatred. It's all recommending the same thing: treat people like human beings and they will trust you and they will listen to you. And, by the way, I think that if we're ever going to get over the political divide in this country, we're going to do it the same way. It's going to have to be grassroots conversations, face-to-face; that's the only thing that's actually going to work.
[Exit Interview]
Robert Pease (co-host)
Face-to-face, Jillian: the only method that works. Yet here we are: stuck on audio.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Well, maybe we don’t need to be too literal, Rob. I think what Lee implies by face-to-face may be heart-to-heart, with real emotion — rather than brain-to-brain. Brains get a little competitive, but not so much with hearts.
Robert Pease (co-host)
And Lee McIntyre’s echoing here a few important things we heard from Tania Israel in Part 1 of our Holiday Survival Kit. The importance of respect and compassion as well that skill of active listening.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
And these are really important concepts for me and my colleagues at Civic Genius, where we try to build dialogue across that fractious political divide. So I’m going to take Tania Israel’s and Lee McIntyre’s advice to heart but I’m also going to put it right to work.
Robert Pease (co-host)
We’ll try to do the same here at the Purple Principle as we plan our Season 3, kicking off in January of 2022. First, though, we have Part 3 of our Holiday Survival Kit upcoming with neuropsychologist Dominic Packer.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
He’s co-author of the new book, The Power of Us: Harnessing Our Shared Identities to Improve Performance, Increase Cooperation, and Promote Social Harmony.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Ambitious stuff. But Dr. Packer has spent decades researching the many facets of social identity and the consequences of polarization on our basic humanity.
[Archival audio - Dominic Packer]
One of the tragedies about political polarization is we lose a lot of complexity of identity. You know, we're all multifaceted; we all contain multitudes and they don't all have to be the same thing, right? Your political identity doesn't have to be exactly the same as your religious identity or your occupational identity or the hobbies you have, but in a polarized society, they all tend to collapse into one thing.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Then Dominic will go right for those heartstrings when Rob roleplays his unvaccinated cousin potentially putting himself and the whole family at risk this holiday season...
[Archival audio - Dominic Packer]
We miss you and we care about you. And I know this is something you really feel strongly about, but we actually believe that this is harmful and you're putting yourself at risk and we wish you to at least reconsider.
Robert Pease (co-host)
It was really effective. We hope you’ll tune in for that, and support us on Patreon as you make out your gift list this holiday season. Sherri N. deserves a special shout out for becoming a Purple Principle Patreon patron, if I may say that one time slowly. Many thanks, Sherri. You can help support us with a review on Apple podcasts, and with suggestions toward Season 3 of The Purple Principle. All those links are available in our show notes and on our website, purpleprinciple.com.
This is Robert Pease and Jillian Youngblood wishing you a happy and safe holiday season from the Purple Principle team: Alison Byrne Production & Audience Engagement; Kevin A. Kline, Senior Audio Engineer; Dom Scarlett and Grant Sharratt, Research Associates; Emma Trujillo, Audio Associate. Our musical identity is the talented composer and musician, Ryan Adair Rooney. The Purple Principle is a Fluent Knowledge production.