Civil Society and Campus Politics
Two Collegians Take on Polarization
December 22, 2020
Colleges have come to be known as havens for divisive politics, cancel culture, and trollism, all miserably co-existing with academic stress, social pressure and stale pizza. In Episode 18, “Civil Society and Campus Politics.” The Purple Principle profiles two college students pushing back against the polarizing forces on college campuses and the nation writ large.
Avinash Bakshi, President of the Penn State College Independents, describes the importance of having a third, far less tribal option among political groups on his campus of 40,000 undergraduates. While smaller in number than the Young Republican or Young Democratic groups, the Penn State Independents have seen substantial growth in the 3 plus years Avinash has been involved. Co-host Emily Crocetti’s interview with Avinash conveys his refreshingly calm, civil, and rational approach to political discourse.
Tyler Swanson, sophomore at University of Illinois Champaign-Urbana and founder of the student-run Bipartisan Post, has taken a journalistic approach to combating the partisan disease. After a formative week on a Washington, D.C. program, Tyler decided fact-based reportage was the best method to counter disinformation, echo chambers, and polarization on his and other campuses around the country. Soon after launching The Bipartisan Post in 2019, he was contacted by dozens of other young journalists around the country on the same anti-partisan wavelength. And The Bipartisan Post has since become a newsletter and podcast with a sizable college-aged audience nationwide.
Tune in to hear that all is not quite lost in our not so United States, assuming a growing number of college students like Avinash and Tyler join the fight against polarization as a true threat to American higher education, politics and society.
Source Notes
College Independents - Penn State University Park
United States Senate Youth Program
Transcript
Avinash Bakshi:
And they were just like, “Hey, you know, if you don't like either party or, you know, whatever your political background, feel free to join us.” So it's been three years. I became president last year, which was nice. And the point of the club is that regardless of your political background, be it, you know, centrist or true independent, or even like communist, libertarian, conservative, whatever. It's really nice to see other people's points of view, especially if they're not within your bubble. So yeah, that's what we're about.
Robert Pease (host):
That’s Avinash Bakshi, one of two college student guests on the Purple Principle today. Both are working to bridge polarization in the U.S. Avinash is President of the Penn State College Independents and a bit of civil fresh air in our partisan nation. Maybe also a ray of hope for a less polarized future. I’m Robert Pease.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
And I’m Emily Crocetti. And there are hundreds, if not thousands, of young Republican and young Democratic clubs on college campuses throughout the country. But there are only a handful of independent ones. My interview with Avinash explores how important that can be on a partisan college campus.
Robert Pease (host):
Our second special guest, Tyler Swanson, has been working against partisanship with, very literally, bipartisanship. He’s the founder of The Bipartisan Post, a blog born from a formative experience in Washington, D.C. that became a newsletter and then a podcast as well.
Tyler Swanson:
I have my bipartisan roots in my experience with the United States Senate youth program, which I attended in March of 2019. And the theme of the week is bipartisanship and breaking down the barriers in political conversation. Ever since I had spent that week in D.C. with the United States Senate youth program, I had in the back of my mind that I needed to do something to contribute to bipartisanship, to contribute to healing this political divide in their country, because it was starting to concern me more and more.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
In the second part of this episode we’ll hear how Tyler, who ended up starting and growing The Bipartisan Post while a student at the University of Illinois Champaign-Urbana.
Robert Pease (host):
First, though, Emily, what should we listen for in your interview with Avinash, President of the Penn State College Independents?
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
You’re going to hear a lot of maturity, self awareness and most of all, civility, as in the ability to discuss political topics calmly and rationally.
Robert Pease (host):
And I take it that was a pretty nice change of pace for you?
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
For me, personally, it was really refreshing, I mean, after all the frustrating and uncomfortable and anxiety-ridden conversations I attempted to have with other students while I was recently in college, many of whom are still incapable of having a civil conversation about politics.
Robert Pease (host):
So stay tuned to this episode of the Purple Principle if you could use a bit of civility.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
Let’s start off hearing from Avinash about the political environment at Penn State, home to 40,000 undergrads in one of the country’s most pivotal swing states.
Avinash Bakshi:
So in terms of campus politics, like most college campuses, it does have a liberal lean. However, I will say that because the surrounding area around Penn State is very like rural PA, there is a good, healthy, conservative discourse within the campus. If I were to split it, I would say it's, it's like a 70/30 split, where 70% are liberal and 30% are conservative. And I wouldn't even say to me personally it was a shock moving into campus because I'm from Massachusetts, which is heavily liberal. So that's kind of the bubble I've been in my whole life. I know for me personally, like getting out of my bubble and talking to people I don't usually talk to for certain issues are really important.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
Have there been any times where you received backlash for being an independent on campus or anything?
Avinash Bakshi:
I would say for the most part within college or within the politically informed, they usually understand why I describe myself as an independent first, and then once they get to know me, they're fine with it. But I find that when I talk to people who aren't as involved in politics, like for example, my friends within my major, they're like, “Oh, you know, you sound like a Democrat, so why don't you just say that you're a Democrat?”
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
Yes, when I was in school, it felt like the young liberals were too concerned with political correctness, to the point where it was overwhelming and even self-defeating. And the young conservatives were almost trolls towards that. Do you see that on your college campus?
Avinash Bakshi:
I feel like that is my biggest issue. I mean, that's why I don't describe myself as a Democrat anymore, just because I hate the idea of identity politics kind of taking over instead of policy politics. But in terms of how campus works, I find it a lot easier to talk with students who identify as conservative rather than students who identify as Democrats on campus. Surprisingly, only because people who are on campus and identify as conservative, they sort of know that they have to listen to other viewpoints. Whereas if you talk to a Democrat, it's like, there's a lot of gatekeeping. It’s either, you're either all with us, or you're against us.”
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
So then what is your biggest fear in terms of the future of our democracy, based on how you’ve seen the two parties and the two party system in action?
Avinash Bakshi:
I would say that my biggest fear is definitely that it stays this partisan. I mean, again, it all comes down to encouraging people to go out and vote and encouraging people to be more informed. And even more than just the presidential elections, it's the local elections that matter as well, even more so because less people vote on it.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
And so as the president of Penn State College Independents, what is your hope for the future of that group specifically?
Avinash Bakshi:
I do see a growing cohort of people who actually do want to register with college Independents or talk to people with different viewpoints. I know as a club, we've grown massively over the past couple of years now, I would say that we have 30-40 regular in-person members. And then on our email list, we have 200 or so people, which is amazing, because back when I joined the club, or even a couple years prior, it was only eight people meeting up and talking about issues. I hope we maintain this growth that we've had for the past couple of years.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
And can you tell us about some of your biggest challenges as the president of this group?
Avinash Bakshi:
So the biggest challenge by far has been trying to get events with Democrats and Republicans, and an even bigger challenge is trying to get them to come together for a debate, because it used to be that they would be fine debating each other, but now recently both groups are like, we don't even want to show up to debate about policy.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
It think that parallels our society in a lot of ways.
Avinash Bakshi:
I mean, individually, they're not bad people. I have friends on both sides of the aisle. It's just that, as a group, it's very tough to work with them because they're all about promoting their own club and not about reaching across the aisle. So it is what it is and there’s nothing I can do about it.
Robert Pease (host):
That was Avinash Bhakshi. He’s President of the Young Independents on the Penn State campus and a refreshingly calm and civil voice among young Americans today. So Emily, as you spoke with Avinash, any insights from previous guests come to mind?
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
Quite a few. But one pretty strongly. And that is Dr. Abigail Marsh from our “Heard from the Herd” episode.
Abigail Marsh(previously recorded audio):
Well, I should emphasize that I'm not a political scientist. That said, yes, absolutely. Somebody who doesn't strongly identify with one political party or the other to a degree that they view political life as a black or white thing? Yes, they should have a very different way of thinking about people on either side of the political gap. They'd be able to consider the possibility that there are people who think differently from themselves, but who might have reasons to think the way they do other than just being fundamentally bad people. Things are complicated. You don't always understand other people's interior lives that well. Somebody might believe something totally different from me, but they might have a reason that even if I don't agree with it, I would at least understand how they got there if I had a conversation with them.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
And Avinash seems to be able to have those conversations.
Robert Pease (host):
Yup. Definitely on point. And for me it also brought up an interesting bit of research from Dr. Thom Reilly, former Chancellor of the Nevada State University System. He was a featured guest on Episode 3, “40 Million Missing.” And his finding was that even being friends with an independent can moderate extreme media consumption and viewpoints.
Thom Reilly (previously recorded audio):
So individuals tend to live in this bubble of more conservative-leaning individuals looking at news sources that reinforce a worldview versus liberals. And this has been pretty well documented, but when they had independents as part of their networks that they talk to on an ongoing basis, it tended to moderate their media consumption. Which means in the case of the very conservative individuals, they tend to introduce additional media sources. And I think that's pretty powerful. Again, that needs to be looked at further.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
Media consumption also comes into play in the next interview segment with Tyler Swanson. He’s the founder of the student-run Bipartisan Post. I asked him how someone of an age normally known for passionate and partisan views on politics decides what’s really needed is more bipartisanship.
Tyler Swanson:
So I started The Bipartisan Post in July 2019, after spending my summer wanting some way to contribute to the political conversation. I have my bipartisan roots in my experience with the United States Senate youth program, which I attended in March 2019. It is a week-long program where two high school students from each state are invited to Washington, D.C. for a week. And the theme of the week is bipartisanship and breaking down the barriers in the political conversation, you know, being able to bridge the gap and understand things from everybody's perspective. So from that I realized, you know, a bipartisan post seems like the most healthy way to contribute to the conversation. So I started posting articles on this website that I made, I started inviting my friends to do so as well. And we just started trying to inform the public on policy issues in the most unbiased bipartisan way possible.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
So then how did it get from a blog post to the full-on Bipartisan Post podcast, with a team of young people from all over the country?
Tyler Swanson:
You know, to be honest, it kind of just happened. I started writing the articles myself and my friends saw it. And then my group of friends who I had spent most of the week with at that group said, “Hey, you know, these articles are great, and we want to write articles as well.” But what if we did a podcast? Because of course this isn't the time when everybody's starting to record a podcast. And we thought that'd be fun. You know, we did it at first just to kind of reconnect and have fun conversations about political issues. And then it started growing more and more, and we got more listeners, we got more people visiting the website. And next thing you know, I get applications of people wanting to join us and starting to connect with other centrists and independent bipartisan sources online. And it's been growing and growing ever since, and it’s been really fun to do.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
So do you remember the first post or blog, or first piece that you created that made you feel like, “Wow, I'm excited about this. I think I'm doing something here”?
Tyler Swanson:
I would say probably the first time that I actually felt like I contributed to the topic and made an actual worthy piece on a political issue would probably be when I wrote about a new law in California that would allow student athletes to be paid and be able to make money from their likeness. Hearing people say thank you for putting up this, I didn't know about this. And it actually helped me form an opinion and kind of start to believe that, you know, what you're saying here makes sense. That was really rewarding, and ever since then, I've strived to achieve that same level of being able to inform and to help people form their opinions in that way, with my articles.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
So then where do you get your news from? And how do you navigate polarizing media?
Tyler Swanson:
I try to get in as many sources as possible. Generally, if I'm just kind of in a rush, I'll listen to NPR and their radio shows. I think they generally do a pretty good job of presenting things in an objective formula, but of course I like to go along a lot deeper. So I always have the Google news app on my phone when I'm going through and trying to find articles. And when I find the topic, I go through at least three to four different sources, so I can try to make sure I'm getting at least a couple of different perspectives there and hopefully, you know, learning more and getting both sides of the argument that somebody might not actually get when they just go through and read one or two articles.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
Have there been any eye-opening moments in the other direction, where somebody responded to what you were doing in a shockingly partisan or emotional way?
Tyler Swanson:
There is always, you know, also of course, for every comment that's like, thank you, you really opened my eyes. There was one comment that's like, no, you're completely wrong (MAGA); or you're completely wrong (Bernie 2020); or, you know, somebody defending their camp and their idea because they just don't want to listen to what you're saying. And you know, that's always a little discouraging too, because you want to make sure that you are helping, not hurting the conversation. But I feel like the value of opening someone's eyes to a topic and informing them is much better than anything that a political extremist or a partisan could take away.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
So what is your biggest goal you hope to achieve through The Bipartisan Post?
Tyler Swanson:
I really hoped to be able to expand it to more than just a website and a podcast. That would be ideal. And I think the most productive way to expand our conversation, of course, are the members that we have who are most active on our site are from everywhere. And we have students at Harvard, we have students at Oklahoma State, students at Troy, at Center College in Kentucky, all across the country. And there's always a way to expand further. I would love to see, you know, Bipartisan Post groups become prevalent on campuses where they're actually helping to facilitate political discussion and debate. And I would like to see more platforms like Bipartisan Post that present issues in a non-partisan way with people being able to read it and formulate their own opinion become more prevalent in society as a whole.
Robert Pease (host):
That was Tyler Swanson, one of two featured twenty-somethings working against polarization. Tyler founded The Bipartisan Post and podcast while a student at Champaign-Urbana. And Emily, as I listen to Tyler, I’m thinking about what Dr. Dominik Stecula told us in Episode 5 about the rise of partisan broadcast news.
Dominik Stecula (previously recorded audio):
What happened is that back in the late seventies, early eighties, if you were following the news, roughly a third of the time you would encounter something like a reference to a politician or a quote from a politician. So roughly one in three stories. Now fast forward to the mid-nineties, we're now at 56%. The majority of content is now partisan. Fast forward to 2016. Now it's two thirds, at 67%. So now, essentially it's not just people who are in the echo chambers who are exposed to hyper-partisanship – it's everybody that even residually follows the news. And you know, that turns off a lot of people, especially pure Independents who get turned off by politics.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
And there’s also the advice we got from Dr. Robert Elliott Smith in Episode 7 on polarizing algorithms and avoiding echo chambers within social media.
Robert Elliott Smith (previously recorded audio):
I think the most important things you can do are: don't just “like” and share on headlines. Read the actual article and try to reflect more and add as sophisticated a human comment as you can. Try to know the authors of the content that you share so that you form a human relationship with them. Rehumanize as much as possible your interactions. And this is a controversial one: try to unblock people. Try to ease off that a bit because our studies have definitely shown that opening up the connectivity effectively allows the information not just to flow to you but to flow beyond you. And then you're opening up the conversation in a realistic way. I would advise that people be more human and try to open up your channels of communication to other people, because you're a part of the way the network is structured. And if you change your network structure, you're changing it for many, many people, not just for yourself.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
In their own ways The Bipartisan Post and the Penn State College Independents are creating better connectivity in our not so united states.
Robert Pease (host):
Special thanks then to both guests today Avinash Bakshi and Tyler Swanson. And best of luck to them in their efforts. We’ll be taking a short holiday break here before launching our next new episode soon after the new year.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
But next Wednesday, December 30th, we’ll relaunch Episode 13, “Declaration of Independents, Alaska Style,” which is on Ballot Measure Two, the most ambitious state-level electoral reform in decades, but we have some new important info to add.
Robert Pease (host):
Spoiler alert: Alaska Ballot Measure Two has now officially been certified and will become law in 2021 and operative with the 2022 elections. Alaska will then become the first state in the county to have a single, unified open primary with top 4 ranked choice voting for state-wide elections.
Emily Crocetti (reporter):
These reforms could help hold off partisan gridlock in our nation’s most indie-minded state, where 57% of voters do not register with either political party. And it could also possibly serve as a model for other states well.
Robert Pease (host):
Happy Holidays to all our listeners, independent, non-partisan, bipartisan, or just plain curious about life beyond the two party death spiral. This is Robert Pease from the Purple Principle team: Emily Crocetti, co-host and staff reporter; Kevin A. Kline, audio engineer; Emily Holloway, senior researcher and fact checker; Johnnie Dowling, research associate. Original music is composed by Ryan Adair Rooney.