Heard the One About a Centrist Congressman?

Written By Guest User

February 22, 2022 | Carlos Curbelo on Polarization in the House

What’s it like to represent one of the very few remaining swing districts on the U.S. Congressional map, and be virtually the only Republican member at that time to publicly address climate change? 

Former Congressman Carlos Curbelo from Florida’s 26th district (including southwest Miami and the Florida Keys) fields these questions in a season-ending Purple Principle episode entitled, Heard the One About a Centrist Congressman? 

Curbelo also recounts some telling anecdotes from his time in the U.S. House of Representatives, such as his application to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus (traditionally bipartisan but now controlled by Democrats), which was ultimately rejected. 

“Things are not actually as bad in the House as they might seem from the media,” Carbelo tells us. “On the other hand, they’re bad enough that being Hispanic is not good enough to be admitted to the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.”

In a similar vein, former Congressman Curbelo was also disinvited to a House Ways and Means Hearing on climate change in 209, in case the appearance might boost him in a future campaign. “We have an issue like climate change that Democrats obviously care about,” Curbelo recalls. “And what’s more important than that? Well, this person may decide to run again for Congress one day.”

“Polarization in the House” is the subtitle and subtext of this episode, which also includes intel on the polarization of music choices in the House members' gym. But there is also far more serious discussion of the populist drift of his Republican Party. “I told people that I was not gonna let Donald Trump define this party, or kick me out of it,” says Curbelo, now a political analyst for NBC and Visiting Fellow at the University of Chicago. “As long as we have two parties in this country, I firmly believe that they both have to be good viable options for most Americans.”

This episode also marks Jillian Youngblood’s last co-hosting stint for the foreseeable future as she turns full attention to an innovative new round of Civic Genius engagement programs nationwide. Tune in to learn more about these efforts and get a first-hand, refreshingly non-partisan perspective on the U.S. House from former Congressman Carlos Curbelo.

Original Music by Ryan Adair Rooney

SHOW NOTES

Our Guest

The Hon. Carlos Curbelo: Twitter page, Unite America, University of Chicago’s Energy Policy Institute

Check out Carlos as a regular contributor to Telemundo, NBC News, MSNBC and NBC 6

Additional Resources

Join Us for Premium Content:
Apple: https://link.chtbl.com/PurpleApple

Patreon: patreon.com/purpleprinciplepodcast

Find us online!
Twitter: @purpleprincipl

Facebook: @thepurpleprinciplepodcast

Instagram: @thepurpleprinciplepodcast

Our website: https://bit.ly/2ZCpFaQ

Sign up for our newsletter: https://bit.ly/2UfFSja 

Transcript

Carlos Curbelo

The only thing that's more important to me than solving climate change is fixing American democracy 

Robert Pease (co-host)

That’s our special guest today, the Honorable Carlos Curbelo, former 2-term centrist congressman  from Miami.  He was pretty much the only Republican House member to publicly address the climate change threatening his sea-level district during his four years in office. 

Carlos Curbelo

…because fixing American democracy makes it a whole lot easier to address big issues like climate  change, like immigration, like gun safety, like our country's debt. So, that's number one. 

Robert Pease (co-host)

Fixing democracy is topic #1  on this Purple Principle, a podcast about the perils of polarization. I’m Robert Pease.

Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

Carlos will also share some great anecdotes and insights from his time in the US House.  I’m Jillian Youngblood, Executive Director of Civic Genius, the non-partisan non-profit civic engagement group where, alas, I’m going to need to focus all my energies going forward.  Very sorry to say this is my last bit of purple co-hosting for the foreseeable future. 

Robert Pease (co-host)

That’s a bummer for us, but Jillian’s onto some really important things. We’ll learn more about the new initiatives Jillian will be leading at Civic Genius toward the end of our episode. And we’ll hope to extract a promise she’ll come back to visit. But first, let’s get into this great discussion with Carlos Curbelo. Board Member at Unite America, Visiting Fellow at the University of Chicago, and NBC political analyst.  

Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

Let’s start off with this increasingly unique subject: what’s it like to represent one of the very few swing districts on our highly gerrymandered Congressional map? 

[Enter Interview]

Leading on Climate Change in Congress

Carlos Curbelo

I represented the southernmost district in the state of Florida. That's Miami, southwestern Miami suburbs and the Florida Keys. Uh, it's an extremely diverse district. You have a lot of Cuban American families in Miami southwestern suburbs. Increasingly you have a lot of other Latin American immigrants from South America, Central America, even a growing Mexican community, which we really didn't have here for a long time.

[Archival Audio - Reporter speaking about Hispanic growth] 

Carlos Curbelo

And then of course the Florida Keys, um, it's certainly the white part of the district it's heavily uh, white, but it is so unique in its needs, whether it's the environment. There's a Naval air station down in Key West, obviously a lot of fishing tourism. So it's really, uh, not to diminish any other district in America, but Florida’s 26th district is definitely unique and, uh, interesting, and there’s never a dull moment here. 

Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

So you held some independent and moderate positions that differed from party leadership from time to time on, on things like climate and immigration, some other issues, was that difficult at this point in our, this moment in our politics?

Carlos Curbelo

It wasn't difficult for me and, and I'll tell people, not that it was easy. And, and I did a lot of work to, couldn't be my colleagues at the time. And sometimes I succeeded and any other times I failed, but I was never pressured by any Republican leader in the Capitol to stop my pursuits or to vote in any specific way on any legislation.

[Archival Audio - Carlos Curbelo in Congress] 

Carlos Curbelo

So, you know, back in 2015 and ‘16, very few Republicans would even utter the words, “climate change,” in an audible voice. So it was a different time. And yet the leadership was always, I wouldn't say supportive of my efforts, but certainly, uh, they did nothing to discourage me or to ask me to shy away from being bold and outspoken on all these issues, whether it was climate, immigration, gun safety. I ended up supporting universal background checks in my second term. So, you know, Congress on the surface seems like a horrible place, but uh, and it is, it is bad. There's a lot wrong with the Congress, but it's a lot better than people think, and there's a lot more cooperation and respect and decency than the headlines would have us believe.

Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

Yeah, I'm a former staffer. And I talk about that all the time, like, you know, people do have meetings together.

Carlos Curbelo

 <laughs> Yep. 

Rejected by Democrats for Partisan Reasons

Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

It’s not all horrible. Um, so at the same time that you were outspoken about climate change, you also asked to join the Democratic-led Hispanic Caucus, and I believe were rejected. Could you tell us about that?

Carlos Curbelo

Yeah, that was, that was a sad experience for me in Congress. So the Congressional Hispanic Caucus had always been a bipartisan caucus, or a caucus that was open to all Hispanics in Congress, regardless of party. That unofficially, unofficially, started changing over time, and it became a Democrat-only organization. And I remember at the end of 2016, after I had been reelected and Donald Trump had won the presidential election, I approached Xavier Becerra, who was still, Secretary Becerra was still serving in the House, a few weeks after that he was chosen to become the Attorney General in California, but he was still in the House. And I told him, you know Xavier, we should really come together. The immigration issue is going to be very prominent now under the Trump presidency.

And Xavier thought it was a great idea. He said, yeah, I'm gonna, uh, I'm gonna talk, and it'd be great to have you in the caucus. But then Xavier left. And, uh, you know, I asked to join the caucus and I got the runaround for literally months. And finally, I said, ‘look, it's been four or five, six months’ - I don't remember exactly how long - ‘let's get this done. What's the problem?’

And at that point, things got a little tense. And they interviewed me. I went in, actually my wife was in D.C. at the time and she went into the interview with me, with not all of the caucus members, but a good number of them. And, uh, she was pretty nervous ‘cause she knew this had become a public spat.  I told them why I wanted to join the caucus. I told them that I didn't really need to join the caucus politically, that no one in my district cared whether I was in the Congressional Hispanic Caucus or not, but that I thought I could be helpful, and that we should have some collaboration. And they voted, I heard it was a close vote, uh, but it was a vote I lost.

And you know, I said earlier that Congress isn't as bad as it seems, but it's bad enough where being Hispanic is no longer good enough to be in the Congressional Hispanic Caucus. The Caucus put out a statement saying that I didn't share their values, which was their justification for rejecting me. That means that they're not interested in any kind of thought diversity. So I thought it was a huge mistake. I don't, um, I don't think they've done anything to change that policy on the contrary, I think they've actually made it an official policy that they will only take Democrats, and that’s an example of something that's broken and, uh, just very sad in Congress today.

Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

Yeah. And I think we saw a similar, something similar play out later, you were invited and then disinvited by Democrats to a House panel on climate change. And I think what was reported at the time is there was concern that that would help you in your reelection. So does it feel like this was kind of a trend for you? <laughs>

Carlos Curbelo

So yeah, this is, you know bigotry does not only exist on the right side of the political spectrum <laugh>. Uh, this was after I had lost my election, Richie Neil, who's the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee - a very decent, good man, who is genuinely interested in trying to work with people, even if he disagrees with the them - he thought it'd be a good idea to have me at the Ways and Means Committee, as a guest of the committee, to promote carbon pricing. Because I filed a carbon pricing bill in July of 2018.

[Archival Audio - Carlos Curbelo speaking about carbon pricing bill] 

Carlos Curbelo

And the person who had defeated me at the time thought that was a horrible idea and was deeply offended by it, went to the leadership to Speaker Pelosi and Leader Hoyer, and essentially got me disinvited from that committee hearing. And again, that's another, because they were worried that maybe I was gonna run again and I was gonna use that. But you know, we have an issue like climate change, which Democrats obviously care about. And here, a recent Republican member of the Ways and Means committee, was gonna go to that committee and make the case to Republicans and Democrats that pricing carbon, you know, is a good solution and an efficient solution. And what's more important than that? Well, this person may decide to run again for Congress one day, and we can't give him anything that he could use in some way to try to get elected again. I mean, it's so small minded…

[Exit Interview]


Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

We’re talking with former Congressman Carlos Curbelo, one of the most independent-minded House members during his time representing Florida’s southernmost 26th district from 2015 to 2019.

Robert Pease (co-host)

And, Jillian, Carlos has shared some really great stories there, of how hyperpartiasnship cuts off the cross-party discussion, and that discussion is so essential to legislation in the House and the Senate. 

Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

Yeah, and as a former staffer I can attest that much of that is driven by our highly gerrymandered and deeply polarizing political primaries, which are just about to start up again this year, where everyone’s preaching to the converted. 

Robert Pease (co-host)

The voters of Florida very nearly did something about those polarizing primaries, as in opening them up to independent and unaffiliated voters, they’re currently excluded by both parties in Florida. Unfortunately that 2020 referendum fell just short. 

Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

And there’s a lot of chatter out there now about rigged elections. But so much of it is misinformation. So we asked Carlos about the challenges of discussing important, non-partisan electoral reforms, like open primaries or ranked choice voting, during the slow burn of the 2020 election aftermath.

Robert Pease (co-host)

That answer’s coming right up right after we hear his position on that 2020 open primaries initiative that received 57% of the vote – just shy of the 60% mandate needed for passage in Florida. 

[Enter Interview]

A Solution for Partisanship in Congress: Open Primaries

Carlos Curbelo

Yes, I did. I was very supportive of opening up our federal primaries, which is what the amendment would have done. It got 57% of the vote, but in Florida, that's not enough. You need 60%. Uh, and I certainly hope that we'll try to get that done again. Unfortunately I think the real reason that campaign was lost is because, while those behind the petition invested a lot to get it on the ballot, I think they just assumed it would win. And there was not a whole lot invested in electioneering and campaigning for the initiative. Meanwhile, of course, the Republican and Democratic parties of Florida, which never agree on anything, did come together to attack the amendment, and their collaboration made the difference, kept it from getting 60%. And here we are still stuck with these closed primaries that disenfranchise millions of people in our state.

Robert Pease (co-host)

We do have primaries coming up. There is a lot of gerrymandering going on. So we're wondering if you feel that's kind of the root cause of polarization in Congress is the primary system.

Carlos Curbelo

For sure. Look, over the last few years, we've heard this, uh, this horrible line promoted by Donald Trump, that the system's rigged and that we can't trust our elections. And of course, what he's saying is completely false and he's just trying to come up with an excuse for why he lost.

[Archival Audio - Donald Trump speaking on January 6th] 

Carlos Curbelo

But in a way, it is true that the system is rigged. Not because there's massive fraud in our elections, but because if you live in a district where your views have zero chance of ever being represented, then for you, there's not a whole lot of motivation for you to show up. We have too many deep red and deep blue districts, where the other party has no chance. And where we have primaries or where you get ten candidates and a candidate that can get 25% of the vote from the most extremist voters in any given area, that's the candidate now who's going to represent that entire district in Congress. And you know, we've seen that all play out. I mean, there's no question that our country politically, at least, is worse off today than it was a couple decades ago. And there are two principal causes.

Number one we've discussed is the structure of the system. But number two is, we the people. I mean, at the end of the day, even if there's a district that's, you know, deep red and another one that's deep blue people can choose to say, well, even though I'm fairly conservative, I want to elect people who are honest people who even if they agree with me on all issues are still willing to listen to other people and maybe work with them when it makes sense.

Robert Pease (co-host)

Yeah, well that leads us to a recent guest here, Thomas Edsall of the New York Times, one of the most research-based columnists. And Carlos, we'd like to play one of Mr. Edsal’s comment for you.

[Archival Audio - Thomas Edsall]

Well, you know, I think even though the Republicans are sort of the aggressors in pushing the polarization issues, because they work for them, the wedge issues of race, culture, and so forth, have generally been ones that Republicans have found profitable on Election Day. I think the burden is on Democrats. To explain that, I think the Democrats remain a rational party and the Republican party has become an irrational party. If you wanna preserve democracy and democracy in a two party system has a very hard time surviving in a polarized context, the burden then falls on the rational party to do something to lessen it. And I think the Democratic party should take steps to reduce the sense of threat that it poses to many Republicans, to just try to turn the temperature down. 

The Value of Lowering the Temperature

Robert Pease (co-host)

Obviously big generalizations there, but his feeling is, it's very difficult to expect the Republican Party at this point to make major changes unless the Democrats make some changes, too…

Carlos Curbelo

Well, I absolutely agree with him. And what he is suggesting is what people like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema and Josh Gottheimer and, you know, many others into  theCongress. Well, not many unfortunately, but a good number of others are, are trying to do. To lower the temperature to avoid this situation where we get these violent swings in the composition of Congress, right? I mean, who knows what's gonna happen next year, but if we take today's poll numbers as any indicator, Democrats are in trouble and could suffer major losses in Congress next year. Why? Because a lot of Republicans are going to be motivated to turn out. Why? Because, uh, they're anxious, they're afraid. They think the Democrats are gonna impose a dangerous socialist agenda on the country, and what people like Sinema and Manchin and those who think like them are saying is, “no, no, we, we actually want to work together. We actually built legislation that Mitch McConnell was able to support. That's what we want to do with our power, to bring people together, to advance solutions that most of us can celebrate.”

Robert Pease (co-host)

Well, that's interesting. So you alluded to, I believe the  infrastructure vote in the Senate, were were you surprised that they were able to get, I believe it was 19 Republicans to sign onto that?

Carlos Curbelo

No, not at all. Number one, I don't know Joe Manchin as well, but Kyrsten Sinema was my spinning instructor every Wednesday in the House gym. So I know how bold and unrelenting she is. A woman of great perseverance and courage. Uh, so I was aware of what was going on and, and I wasn't surprised that they did get so many Republicans. And, and I think, that's just an important message for the country. It's important for the American people to see, oh, look, they can do something together. It'll help restore, uh, some of the trust and confidence in our system. 

Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

Sorry, I know this is beside the point, but am I the only one who didn't know that Kyrsten Sinema teaches spin classes in the members' gym? Is that a real thing? <laughs>

Robert Pease (co-host)

Well, let's clarify that, that’s bike spinning, not political spinning

Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

<laughs>

Carlos Curbelo

Yeah, yeah, yeah, cycling. And, it was a scene every Wednesday morning, because Kyrsten would come in and play some modern music, you know, hip hop, whatever. And it was the only day that Paul Ryan didn't control the music in the House gym. And of course, Paul is all, Guns and Roses and Pearl Jam. And he was so annoyed, every Wednesday, he’d say, “this is not music, it's noise, turn that down!” Every time, never failed. <laughs> 

Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

That’s fantastic. Sorry, Rob, you probably had real questions to keep asking…

Robert Pease (co-host)

Yeah. Well, polarization of music. It's a topic we're gonna cover soon. Uh, so last of my questions, we ask everyone on the show to show a bit of purple, which is expressing some respect for members of both parties. Are you still considering yourself a Republican at this time?

Carlos Curbelo

Yeah, I'm a member of the Republican Party. I told people that I was not gonna let Donald Trump define this party, or kick me out of it. You know, as long as we have two parties in this country, I firmly believe that they both have to be good, viable options for most Americans. So as long as we only have two, I think we, people in both parties trying to keep them on, trying to shape them in a way that will help them appeal to the greatest number of people possible.

Robert Pease (co-host)

Yeah. So then as a Republican, could you name one or two major Democratic figures, either now or in recent history that you have particular, uh, respect for?

Carlos Curbelo

Well, let's keep things relevant so that more listeners can relate to it. I mean, Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. They are holding the line,  you know, sure on some policies, but it's bigger than that. They're refusing to accept that politics must be a zero sum game in our country. 

[Archival Audio - Joe Manchin in the Senate] 


Carlos Curbelo

That, to me, is a lot more valuable than any specific policy that we get these days, because if we continue violating those norms, that mutual respect, considering other people, if we continue to violate that, it won't matter what policies we have, our society will deteriorate to the point where our democracy will no longer be, um, a protagonist in the life of the country. 

[Exit Interview]

Robert Pease (co-host)

That’s the Honorable Carlos Curbelo, two-term Congress member from 2015 to 2019, representing the 26th district around Miami. And this swing district did in fact swing back to Democrats in 2018,  then back again to Republicans in 2020, and will quite possibly be in play again in 2022. Which is what we need more of in U.S. politics: competitive districts electing pragmatic legislators in general elections.

Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

And let me just say as someone working on civic engagement projects at Civic Genius, if only we had many more Carlos Curbelos on both sides of the aisle and in both chambers of Congress.

Robert Pease (co-host)

Unfortunately the trend seems headed the other way. A number of more moderate Republican House members have decided not to run again in 2022, including John Katko and Tom Reed, both from upstate New York and both members of the Problem Solvers Caucus. 

Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

And some of the centrist Democratic house members, like Abigail Spanberger and Elissa Slotkin, may face tough primary battles from the left after the current round of redistricting. 

Robert Pease (co-host)

We’ll hear more from Carlos Curbelo in our upcoming series on the diversity and independence of Hispanic voters kicking off in a few weeks. 

[Audio look ahead to next Carlos Curbelo appearance]

Carlos Curbelo

So jobs, the economy and education, you know, if you're not talking about that with Latino voters, you're losing. And I think Republicans have been smart at trying to meet Hispanics where they're at. Democrats in more recent years have tried to meet Hispanics where they would like them to be.


Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

But next up on The Purple Principle, the first episode in our series on polarization at the state level. Starting with the great state of Texas, a powerhouse not just politically but economically and culturally. 

Robert Pease (co-host)

And musically. Not to mention barbecue-wise. The Lone Star State that was once a nation often seems like it might like to be again. But is our country’s polarization weakening that Texas identity? In this first Texas episode we’ll ask the hosts of the popular, informative podcast Y’allitics, Jason Whitely and Jason Wheeler, whether the Lone Star State might be joining the crowd.

[Audio look ahead to Jason Whitely and Jason Wheeler]

Jason Whitely

Absolutely no question. What strikes me Robert, is that, you know, politics is this massive team sport, but the federal offices are the ones that get the most attention. At the end of the day, the state offices, the local offices, the mayor and city council: that's where things really get done, but no attention is given there.

Jason Wheeler

And I think, uh, to add on to that, that it's almost in the culture right now, it's almost like people are spoiling for an argument. They're spoiling for a fight, and politics sort of pervades everything.

Robert Pease (co-host)

We hope you’ll join us for that episode. Which, unfortunately, Jillian will not be here to co-host, as she’s turning full attention to Civic Genius. So Jillian, tell us what’s on the agenda there: 

Jillian Youngblood (co-host)

It’s hard to say goodbye, but I am excited to announce that Civic Genius is launching a unique opportunity for people to step up and actually create their own solutions to the key issues facing us today. So we'll be hosting events in communities across the country where you can join us for a daylong, nonpartisan deliberation on an issue that's making our politics insane: digital disinformation. 

Working in both small and large groups in your community, you’ll have a chance to cut through the partisan clutter and develop a slate of recommendations that you and your new friends from across the political spectrum can go push for – together. Check out ourcivicgenius.org to learn more and sign up.

Robert Pease (co-host)

A great organization and really  important stuff. So we’ll be checking periodically on Civic Genius and other civic-minded reform efforts as we visit states throughout the 2022 primary season. 

Really special thanks to Jillian Youngblood for her contribution these past six months. We’ve all benefited from her experience, perspective and positive energy. And we’ve started the audio hunt for a new co-host. But no one knows this show better than listeners! So, if someone you know has a strong independent voice and perspective, plus substantial experience in non-partisan politics and media, please tell them to get in touch through our website or social media. 

As always, thanks for listening and sharing the podcast from the whole team, including our composer Ryan Adair Rooney, a former Texas resident re-tuning his dobro for those upcoming Texas episodes. Hope to see you all politically - or is that ya’llitically - speaking, next episode. The Purple Principle is a Fluent Knowledge production.

Guest User
Previous

Messing with that Texas Identity? These Not So United States (TX Part 1)
Next

Voice of Reason for Independent Minds: Talking Media & Polarization with CNN's Michael Smerconish