A Civic Way to Reverse Polarization? New Vitality in Education & Legislation
September 7, 2021
Is civics education in the U.S. having a moment, as in a long overdue upgrade, for a topic essential to our democracy? And will that moment translate into more substantial education on the rights and obligations of our citizens and voters-to-be at the elementary, middle, and high school levels?
In “A Civic Way to Reverse Polarization,” The Purple Principle takes on these questions with four special guests well versed in civics from the introductory course level and upwards, kicking off with the producer-hosts of the popular NHPR radio show, podcast, and educational series Civics 101, Hannah McCarthy and Nick Capodice.
Civics 101 has produced 250 episodes to date on topics ranging from the electoral college to Supreme Court decisions and Executive Orders. In recent years, it has also expanded its educational outreach to middle and high school classrooms around the country, in part through teachers wanting to raise contentious issues but concerned about blowback from parents. “Because we can talk about the hot button issue as non partisanly as possible,” McCarthy confides, “these teachers are allowed to bring that debate into the classroom without themselves being perceived as the person who is instigating it.”
But can the rights and responsibilities of citizens really engage kids in the age of Tik Tok or House Party?
In her TPP interview, Superintendent Dr. Laura Hammack attests that civics can engage kids, particularly when a well-conceived curriculum with some competition is attached. At least this was the case with her former school district and the We the People competition created by the Center for Civic Education. Despite its small size, low incomes, and limited resources, Brown County, Indiana, won the state competition six times and the Nationals two years running. “What we witnessed,” Dr. Hammack states, “was the power of civics education to really change a community.”
Also in this episode, Lt. Colonel Michael Moffett, a former Marine, teacher of civics, and now a state legislator, underscores the importance of assessments of civics education. “The problem with the credit requirements is that if there's no assessments, then there's very uneven application of civics instruction around the state,” explains Lt.Col. Moffett, “and all too often, my my sense has been that there's been a lack of emphasis on the actual fundamentals of how government works.”
As a result, Lt.Col. Moffett sponsored New Hampshire House Bill 320, which mandates the citizenship test for high school graduates in the state. His bill drew the support of a dozen legislators from across the aisle and was signed into law this summer, one of dozens of state level efforts to expand civics education around the country.
Civics may not have had this much attention since the “I’m Just A Bill” song aired on Schoolhouse Rock in the mid-1970s, or Lisa earned extra points for her civics speech after the judge met her father on an early 1990s Simpsons. Tune into the latest episode of The Purple Principle, “A Civic Way to Reverse Polarization?” to learn more.
Original Music by Ryan Adair Rooney.
Show Notes
Our Guests
Nick Capodice & Hannah McCarthy, A User’s Guide to Democracy: How America Works
Additional Resources
Annenberg Classroom – Resources For Excellent Civics Education
Center for Political Thought and Leadership at ASU
Institute for Citizens & Scholars at Princeton University
Transcript
Nick Capodice
This wonderful thing, the Bill of Rights, my heavens, is there anything cooler and more revered? No, we all adore the Bill of Rights. I love first amendment Supreme Court cases. I love reading about them, everything.
Robert Pease (co-host)
That’s Nick Capodice, co-host of Civics 101, the popular New Hampshire Public Radio show widely heard via radio and downloads and also used in middle and high school classrooms throughout the US. I’m Robert Pease, and today on The Purple Principle, a shift away from the perils of polarization toward civics education as a way to depolarize just a bit.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
And I’m Jillian Youngblood, co-host here at The Purple Principle. And civics is my first love, both in front of this mic and also my computer screen as Executive Director of Civic Genius. Which is a non-profit, non-partisan group working to strengthen our civic culture.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Civics is a term you hear a lot but has varying interpretations. The simplest definition of civics would be the rights and responsibilities of citizens.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Though you could also define it as the lifeblood of democracy. Or As Ben Franklin is said to have said, “A Republic.. if we can keep it.”
Robert Pease (co-host)
Important stuff, civics. But let’s be honest. As taught to middle and high schoolers from a well-worn textbook, civics has induced more than its share of groans and eye rolls over time, as well as note passing and text messaging on pretty unrelated topics.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
But the team at Civics 101 has made civics not only more accessible but kind of a cool, more personal subject, too, at least when presented by Nick Capodice and co-host Hannah McCarthy.
Hannah McCarthy
And I've had the unbelievable privilege of interviewing two descendants of plaintiffs in two Supreme court cases. And in both of those cases, it was so eye opening to speak to someone who doesn't just inherit these decisions, the way that we all inherit them as Americans, but for whom they carry it in their bones, this is their life and this is their family story.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Currently in the U.S., there's also a flurry of legislative activity involving civics education. At least 88 bills at the state level and a federal funding bill, The Civics Secures Democracy Act, that’s currently sitting in committee.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
We’ll talk to one legislator in New Hampshire, Colonel Michael Moffet, who has taught civics for decades at the community college and university level. The civics ed bill he sponsored was recently signed into law in the Granite State.
Michael Moffett
And again, for me personally, having taught this in this field also, I've taught other courses in college as well. And I and others have just been very discouraged by the lack of basic fundamental core knowledge of how the government works.
Robert Pease (co-host)
And we’ll meet Dr. Laura Hammock, a superintendent whose rural school district in Indiana a few years back not only won their state civics contest six times but the national contest two years running.
Laura Hammack
And at the end, the judges – which never happens – stood and gave these young women, it just happened to be a team of four young women, stood up, gave them a standing ovation and said, you know, this is what our leaders need to be seeing a lot more of, right?
Robert Pease (co-host)
Civics hasn’t had this much attention since this Schoolhouse Rock episode launched in the 1970s
[Archival audio, Schoolhouse Rock]
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
And it hasn’t been this cowabunga since Lisa Simpson won her local civics contest in the 1990s.
[Archival audio, The Simpsons]
Robert Pease (co-host)
Join us today as we explore the importance of civics education and the efforts to raise its profile nationwide, starting with the co-hosts of Civics 101.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
This show has deftly handled topics as well worn as the electoral college and judicial review, and as poorly understood as the electoral college and judicial review.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Let’s start with the origins of Civics 101, the impetus coming, aptly enough, from citizens with questions and concerns.
[Archival audio, Civics 101]
Hannah McCarthy
Civics 101 started shortly after the 2016 election. After the election of Trump, many people were paying more attention to the news or hearing things in the news that they had never expected to hear before and listening to a lot more of it. So we were getting questions along the lines of, “can that person do that? I've never seen that done before.” I can say that again, because I had my hand over my mouth unprecedented. But also just because people were paying more attention to the news in certain respects, we got a lot of, “and now, what does the Secretary of State actually do? Or what is a treaty, by the way?”
Robert Pease (co-host)
So remind me when you folks came on board, and I know it was at different times, so Nick, let's start with you.
Nick Capodice
So I moved to New Hampshire from the great city of Brooklyn. And I was working at the time in an education department at a place called the Tenement Museum in New York, a place I adore, which is all about telling stories in order to teach history. And there was a job at NHPR for an education outreach producer at New Hampshire Public Radio, someone who can get the podcast into classrooms. And that was my job. Hannah at the time was doing production for the show.
So Hannah and I started making these episodes on the side called Civics 101 IRL, which were kind of fun episodes about Supreme Court cases, civics in real life. How do these lessons actually apply to your daily life as an American? And then coincidentally, the host left. And they tapped Hannah and I to be the co-hosts. And we quickly found that we could make a narrative style podcast. That's a little bit more appealing to students and that's sort of what the show morphed into over the last three years.
Robert Pease (co-host)
So I'm curious, how does one get into the classroom? It seems like with a lot of things like textbooks, for example, that there needs to be some sort of vetting process. But did you have to actually go through that process before teachers could begin to use your material?
Nick Capodice
One teacher starts listening to it, passes it to another. And the next thing we know, we have this group of teachers who support our show, who play it in their classrooms to sort of actually encourage that. We created something called The Cabinet, which is a group of 20 teachers across the country who helped make lesson plans to pair with their shows, listen to them, tell us what they like, tell us what they don't like, and help us sort of be better geared to be in schools, but there's no official sort of process.
Hannah McCarthy
And I would say in actual fact, I have found that a lot of teachers will say, “I'm so glad you made an episode about this, because I can't say this out loud in the classroom.” And because we can talk about the sometimes a hot button issue as non-partisanly as possible, these teachers are allowed to bring that debate into the classroom without themselves being perceived as the person who is instigating it, which I thought was both a bit sad and really quite interesting.
Robert Pease (co-host)
So when teachers contact you to use the material in the classroom, typically is it high school level or is it middle school and younger?
Hannah McCarthy
And we have spoken to an eighth grade that didn't seem to have any trouble in comprehending or engaging with any of the material, which is really heartening because often it feels like you're shouting into a void, unless you join a Twitter chat with a bunch of teachers, which we do fairly regularly, or we actually get to speak to some of these teachers on the phone or at conferences.
Nick Capodice
I want to just jump on one thing, Hannah, because I was going to just say a big old ghost-style ditto to that because I agree with it 100%. We do student contests every year where we have students submit stuff, right? And this year's was called “There Ought to be a Law.” And we asked students to submit proposed legislation to fix a problem in their community. We got hundreds of responses. That's a success more than say an episode getting 250,000 downloads, right? Hundreds of students submitted laws, big success, but the winner of that contest, her school principal listened to the episode and he is starting to reevaluate school policy based on her proposed law.
[Archival audio, Civics 101]
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Student contests. Gotta love ‘em. Especially when kids get revved up on subjects as vital as civics just before they suddenly find themselves at campaign rallies and voting booths.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Our next guest has been part of some remarkable experiences at the national civics contest, We the People. Dr. Laura Hammack is the former Superintendent of Brown County, Indiana, which won the national championships in 2013 and 2014 as well as the Indiana contest six times.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
We’ll circle back to Hannah and Nick from Civics 101 in just a beat. But let’s hear more about that amazing group of kids from Brown County, as well as Dr. Hammack’s experience with civics instruction.
Laura Hammack
So I think unfortunately what I have noticed over the course of my career – I began as an educator in 1996. So over the years, back in the dark ages, when we had the introduction of high stakes testing and assessment in public education, there was a decidedly strong shift towards a profound emphasis on mathematics and language arts reading instruction. And during that time, what was evidenced was a falling away of some of the humanities work, which social studies and the education of civics education really falls under.
Robert Pease (co-host)
So I don't know if you've had this particular question or perhaps some of your colleagues have, but I'll direct it to you. Dr. Hammack, I'm going to be a professional ballplayer or actor or rapper. Why do I need to know this stuff?
Laura Hammack
So we believe that civics education has the power to create a more informed citizen who is then ultimately able to navigate in their democratic world in a way that allows for their voice and their witness to have an impact on their community. And so when you are a more informed citizen, the power of your voice in the dynamics of what's happening in your local community, but then also what's happening on a broader scale allows for that more informed electorate that then ultimately is a more engaged electorate. So be it whatever role in life that you are as a student, when you are more informed about the how of what is happening in local government, as well as a state or national platform, then that just positions you as a more informed citizen and a more engaged citizen.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Even for politicians.
Laura Hammack
Ha! Yes, even for Politicians. Yes. Particularly for politicians. Right? It is extraordinary really. I think that from some of the programming that we've been able to implement at the local level, we have eighth graders that are able to engage in discussion about the United States constitution that can put many adults to shame.
Robert Pease (co-host)
You've certainly had a lot of experience with some impressive middle schoolers, because if I was reading this correctly, in your previous district, your civics entrance in the We the People competition won the state championship six times. So, tell us how you got interested in that program, how the kids were prepared and how they were able to consistently do so well?
Laura Hammack
So actually I was lucky enough when I began as superintendent in Brown County, the We the People program was already there and the incredible performance of this – just to kind of position you with a little perspective on what Brown County schools is all about: it's a very small rural school community, high poverty, and students from Brown County junior high school won not just state championships, but they also won national championships, and the We the People competition in Washington, D.C. So what we witnessed was the power of civics education to really change a community.
We are really blessed with the Indiana Bar Foundation. It's an incredible organization that advances a whole number of incredible activities. One of which is their sponsorship of the We the People program.
And they got connected with this curricula that allows for students in the fifth, the eighth, and then at the high school level to participate in the curricular component, which then ultimately is matched in a competition where students are spending the bulk of their school year in class, preparing for a simulation of a congressional hearing.
So this school district with a total of 1,650 students won the national championship, for We the People for the eighth grade, which is just a really incredible thing, considering many of the backgrounds that the students sort of carry, but they were able to be prepared from some pretty extraordinary educators that allowed for them to get to that position.
Robert Pease (co-host)
That sounds a little bit like the movie Hoosiers, but the civics version, right?
[Archival audio, Hoosiers]
Laura Hammack
Oh, you're so right. Yes. We are the Milan of civics education, we'll take it.
Robert Pease (co-host)
So, you have these competitions and these are judged, correct?
Laura Hammack
That's correct.
Robert Pease (co-host)
So can you remember some particularly difficult situations where some kid just came up with something remarkable that really impressed the judges? I'm wondering, also thinking about what these students went on to do. Did it influence them long-term in terms of their college acceptances or their career paths?
Laura Hammack
One that I'm recalling as a student whose first name is Marie. Marie has had the opportunity now in her high school year, the summer before COVID summer. So this would've been summer of 2019. She was invited to serve as an intern, a summer internship, with the ACLU organization in Washington, D.C. And just this last school year, she was named one of only 12 Bezos scholars, which is a national indication. And so she was all in with her preparation and it was at that point that she decided that for her and her future, she was just laser focused on making it happen. And so in this particular unit, the judges were really spending some pretty significant time on free speech, right? Freedom of speech and genuinely a school application of speech. And it was very interesting because in that particular unit, you had Marie, who had a point of view, and you had one of her teammates who had a very different point of view. And yet in competition, they were able to respectfully use that word, disagree with each other, to offer the evidence why, and be able to deliver a very compelling case on why their point of view was correct, and why the others might not be substantiated. And at the end, the judges, which never happened, stood and gave these young women – it just happened to be a team of four young women – stood up, gave them a standing ovation because it was and said, this is what our leaders need to be seeing a lot more of.
Because it was a true civil discourse on an extraordinarily complex topic. Eighth graders being able to use case law and evidence. And in order to, both come to very different conclusions, but in a way that was respectful.
So the community then, because many of the students that just didn't have the means in order to have a new suit, the community really stepped in and ultimately thousands and thousands of dollars were raised to make sure that the students had the right clothes to wear to Washington, D.C., and flights and travel. And all of that for families were donated to be able to make sure that everyone was able to go see these students compete when they made it to D.C. So just genuinely a way in which the community really came together in order to advance, elevate, and lift up these kids.
[Archival audio, We the People Competition]
Robert Pease (co-host)
The We the People Competition, developed by the Center for Civic Education, is held annually for students nationwide. Again, the kids from Indiana’s Brown County have won that national competition twice.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Unfortunately, though, civics has been de-emphasized in a large percentage of school districts across the country in recent decades. But now there is a flurry of legislative activity, with at least 80 bills filed at the state level.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Including in my great and purple state of New Hampshire. The Republican sponsor of that recently signed House Bill 320 is Lt. Colonel Michael Moffet, a long-time teacher of civics.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Rob interviewed Colonel Moffet from his B&B near Concord, New Hampshire, a photo with General Norman Schwarzkopf proudly displayed in the background.
Michael Moffett
I started teaching right out of college. I went to the University of New Hampshire in Plymouth State College and they taught New Hampshire history in government, civics my first four years, actually a couple of years in public school and a couple of years at another school. I love history, love government. Later on I was in the Marine Corps and then got a graduate degree and went on to teach in some military schools and then community college level and the university level. And throughout I've retained my interest in government history, civics, which I enjoy, not everybody loves it as much as me, but I think others think it's very important that citizens understand how their government functions to be truly engaged in and good citizens.
Robert Pease (co-host)
So in the time that you've had this interest in and in the time that you've been a teacher, it seems from the little bit of research that we've done, that there's maybe been a decline in the amount of civics instruction or the budgeting or the allotment of time for that subject. Have you observed that?
Michael Moffett
Yes. My experience has been that there has been a decline in terms of knowledge and awareness of civics fundamentals, basic history and basic governmental structures. And that's a concern of mine. As a professor, as a teacher, as a Marine Corps officer, and as a legislator, you know, I think it's tremendously important and very crucial that young people, older people, everyone have a sense of the fundamentals of how our government works.
Robert Pease (co-host)
So we're wondering, growing up in New Hampshire, what was your experience like as a civic student? Do you remember it as a subject, were you immediately interested in it? And what about the other students that you studied civics with?
Michael Moffett
Well, growing up in New Hampshire is pretty cool. Of course, most of us say that about our home states, but the New Hampshire presidential primary going way back to the sixties when I was in school myself, to have these national figures, you name them and they've been here and we've met them. I remember talking to Ted Kennedy in 1980 before the New Hampshire primary as just one of countless examples.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Great. Well, we're curious, what are the current civic education requirements in New Hampshire and what is the bill improving? You mentioned more accountability. Can you expand on that a little bit?
Michael Moffett
Sure. We have requirements: fourth graders, for example, have to take instruction in civics, New Hampshire government, and history, and often you'll see fourth graders visit the state house, which is wonderful to see these 9-10 year olds come through the state house and get tours and learn a little bit about the actual building where legislating takes place. So field trips like that are wonderful in the eighth grade and also high school credit requirements. Again, the problem with the credit requirements is that if there's no assessments that go with those, then there's very uneven application of civics instruction around the state. Every school is different. Every teacher is different, and all too often, my sense has been that there's been a lack of emphasis on the actual knowledge fundamentals of how government works. You know, what is an amendment, you know, tripartite government.
Robert Pease (co-host)
So I wonder if you've had this experience of trying to explain U.S. politics to, let's say someone from almost any other country, even a country as close as Canada. They're just completely baffled at the complexity and the challenges of governing in the U.S. Have you had that experience?
Michael Moffett
I have, I actually did a book with an Afghan American Hollywood actor and interpreter I met in Afghanistan and he's somebody who had to take the civics naturalization test to become a citizen. So I've had conversations with people from Afghanistan, like Fahim Fazli, my coauthor to Canada and last year's election. I know that it's confusing to not just Americans who don't understand the electoral college, in 2016, Hillary Clinton got 3 million more votes than Donald Trump, but Donald Trump became president. So some people scratch their heads and both in America and in Canada and other countries and say, how does this work? And in fact, I think most Americans don't understand who electors are. We saw on January 6th, we had the trouble in Washington about the electors and certifying the election.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Are you sometimes a little bit surprised or disappointed with lack of civics knowledge from some of the newer legislators, some of the younger legislators who perhaps didn't benefit from as much civics education?
Michael Moffett
I think in most legislatures, the newer freshmen legislators certainly have a learning curve. They need to learn about the processes, but in terms of basic knowledge of government, there's a spectrum. I think some new legislators are well-versed in how the government works and some are clearly not, and they learn as they go. Now, the civics bill, the 72 Bill, I had to go through the New Hampshire legislature. Oftentimes people said, ah, we gotta have the legislators take this test too. In fact, the house education committee hearing one of the committee members pulled some questions off the test in question, the naturalization test, and asked those questions in committee. And we kind of had some fun with that.
Robert Pease (co-host)
So Michael, can you give us a couple of examples of some of the tougher and maybe a couple of the easier questions that high school students, presumably college students, and maybe someday your fellow legislators, what we'll have to be able to answer?
Michael Moffett
Sure. You can go to the internet and you can just ask or punch in a hundred question naturalization citizenship test, or the 128 question naturalization citizenship test. There are two versions. So some of the questions are historical. Some of the questions have to do with multiple choice questions. In some cases, which of these persons was President of the United States? There are some history chronological type questions. I'm trying to remember. It was a question about Eisenhower that came up, what was his contribution? What was his background to become president?
Robert Pease (co-host)
Well, if I remember correctly for my U.S. history classes, wasn't Eisenhower courted by both parties to be a presidential candidate?
Michael Moffett
General Eisenhower was courted by the Democrats and Republicans, he was kind of a non-aligned, independent person as a general. I was a military officer myself and whoever your Commander in Chief is, you surrender your personal sovereignty to take orders. So when he became an independent citizen, a retired general, popular; the Democrats wanted him and Republicans wanted him. And eventually he came out as a Republican and was elected in 1952.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Well, as you probably saw a lot of our topics and our audience are independent or unaffiliated voters, in some states called nonpartisans. There's certainly a high percentage of that in New Hampshire, but there's not a lot of mention of independents in high school and college textbooks and in the media generally. Do you think that is a problem when you have anywhere from 35-45% of the population in a category that's not really well addressed in the curriculum or in the media?
Michael Moffett
Sure. The notion of political parties, of course, if you go back to 1787, there were no political parties, but inevitably factions evolved out of the Federalists and the Anti-Federalists. But we've had basically a two party system for a couple of centuries and a third party candidates do happen or do arise. So the two party system I think needs to be discussed and analyzed and are we locked into this two party system, or is there room for third parties or other parties? So, you know, that could have significance. I listened to your podcast about Alaska and I was fascinated to learn how few people in Alaska, after listening to your show, are affiliated. I was fascinated by that.
And here in New Hampshire, you have about 30% Republican, about 30% Democrat, and about 40% unaffiliated or independent. So in terms of civics discussions, civics testing, civics classes, the notion of focusing on independents in the roles that independents could play or do play in our processes is very interesting to me. And of course, when both parties in most states are in the minority, they have to reach out to these independents. And that I think is a healthy thing for either or both parties to have to listen to people and reach out to unaffiliated voters and bring them into the process, get their support, get their votes.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Well, great. So that kind of leads to our final question. We ask all our guests to show a bit of purple, and as you're a Republican legislator, could you name someone from the other side of the aisle, a notable Democrat, doesn't have to be living now, but in recent memory, that you have particular respect for?
Michael Moffett
Well, there are a lot of great Democrats in our history, in my opinion. Of course I am a Republican obviously, and so I tend to trend a little bit more conservative, but there are many Democrats that I admired in the past. Currently Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia is a Democrat, a fairly independent thinking Democrat who works with Republicans very well. I really admire the fact that he is capable of taking a more independent course, which has given him enormous power, right at the moment with a 50-50 Senate. And from the past, Senator Joe Lieberman, liked him a lot. He was the Senator from Connecticut, very likable guy and very reasonable. Interestingly, Senator Lieberman was taken out in the primary, which you may recall, by a very liberal candidate. And then Senator Lieberman ran as an independent and got tremendous Republican support and some Democrat support. And he regained his seat as an independent.
[Archival audio, Joe Lieberman]
Michael Moffett
Well, real quick, I would say that Senator Manchin, again, being independent or purple, if you will, I know your organization has as a word purple in it. There's immense power that Senator Manchin suddenly has because he is purple, if you will.
[Archival audio, Joe Manchin]
Michael Moffett
So there are times where being not locked into a party structure, which is rarer than it used to be, empowers somebody. So Senator Joe Manchin is like that today. The New Hampshire legislature, we have the largest legislature in the country, a citizen legislature. We have 400 state representatives. I'm one of them. I love it. I've made a lot of friends and as a civics person, that governmental person, I love going to the state house. I have many friends from, I hope, on both sides of the aisle. And I did have some bipartisan support for my civics bills. So that is crucial. If anything is ultra partisan, it's gonna have problems. But if you can get bipartisan involvement, then what moves forward can be more successful. So anyway, what you folks do is very interesting, with The Purple Principle and good on you for what you're trying to do.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
That was Colonel Michael Moffett, Republican legislator from New Hampshire, whose civics education bill was passed by both houses and signed into law this summer.
Robert Pease (co-host)
But we should say that some legislative efforts have fallen into partisan gridlock around the country with Republicans and Democrats differing over the definition of civics subject matter.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
And concerns about federal funding for civics which is currently a miniscule amount of the overall education budget. But a bill to expand federal funding co-sponsored by Democratic Senator Chris Coons and Republican Senator John Cornyn is still stuck in committee.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Here in my home state, Colonel Moffet’s bill had pretty decent bipartisan support. That could be because of the large number of independent and split ticket voters in New Hampshire.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
And it could also be due to the educational efforts of Civics 101, produced by New Hampshire Public Radio, widely popular throughout the state, both on the airwaves and in the classroom.
Robert Pease (co-host)
We spoke to Civics 101 producers & co-hosts Nick and Hannah about some themes important to Purple Principle listeners, as well as some of their own favorite episodes.
Nick Capodice
My favorite series that we did was “The Declaration Revisited,” which looked at the Declaration of Independence, specifically how it dealt with people not included and its wonderful promises. So we did an episode about black Americans, the Declaration, Native Americans, and women, through the Declaration of Sentiments. So, you know, this is like a re-examination of our tried and true held foundational documents.
Hannah McCarthy
Speaking of the Supreme Court, I will say it's in part because I fell madly in love with whatever subject we’re covering at the time. And currently it's Supreme Court cases that you absolutely must know, but we're going through civil rights cases, and I've had the unbelievable privilege of interviewing two descendants of plaintiffs in two Supreme Court cases. I got to interview the great-great-granddaughter of Dred Scott and I got to interview the daughter of Fred Korematsu.
[Archival audio, Civics 101]
Hannah McCarthy
And you start, once you infuse that human element in these stories, you actually start to understand it. You understand what it was for a man to end up in an internment camp after believing that you should not forcibly remove and relocate an American citizen without any sort of due process.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Nick, I believed in one episode, it might've been one about maybe the Democratic party, at the end you were talking about – it was very interesting episode because we assume that there's been these designations of red being Republican and blue being Democratic for a long period of time, but you informed us that's not the case. But at some point in the episode, you actually said to your listenership, hold on to your little purple hat.
[Archival audio, Civics 101]
Robert Pease (co-host)
And that’s our favorite color here.
Nick Capodice
That's great. You know, I'm afraid, that might be the only purple reference that I've snuck in, but I promise you will not be the last. I truly did have my mind blown when I learned that red didn't mean Republican and blue didn't mean Democrat and also had my mind blown at just how the two parties have swapped completely 100%, complete 180s from what they used to be since they were first formed, and that they could do so again, so perhaps the purple is a very sensible, safe inflatable rowboat to be on, on oceans of red and oceans of blue that are constantly changing.
Robert Pease (co-host)
I know you did an episode on independents and that was particularly interesting for us.
Nick Capodice
I don't want it to sound too Pollyanna-ish, but the greatest joy I have personally had working on this show is having my mind changed. And it does all the time, to have things that I believed were true fall like sand beneath my feet.
Hannah McCarthy
And I think what perhaps the independent mindset can allow for is possibly a greater openness to conversation with people of different perspectives, because certainly in both my life and on this show, it’s been true that my mind has been changed or that things have been revealed to be untrue.
Robert Pease (co-host)
That was Hannah McCarthy and Nick Capodice of the popular Civics 101 radio show and podcast, also used as an educational resource throughout the country.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
It’s like Schoolhouse Rock and The Simpson’s civics episode rolled into one.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
But with quite a bit more of that NPR research and credibility.
Robert Pease (co-host)
There's over 250 Civics 101 episodes and counting. My personal favorites are, not surprisingly, on independents and third parties. But in light of recent history, the episode on “Peaceful Transition of Power” also resonates quite a bit.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
And I’m going to be that high school nerd who raises her hand and says I love them all. But you’ve got to check out their Starter Kit, “How a Bill Really Becomes Law,” even before the other 200.
Robert Pease (co-host)
Thanks also to Dr. Laura Hammack and Colonel Michael Moffet for speaking with us for this episode. In today’s polarized climate, we’re not going to get a lot of agreement on many issues. But all more reason to fund and implement civics education as widely as possible to make sure there’s common ground beneath the hyper partisan battles.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
At that day job of mine, Civics Genius, we’re all about less division, more action, and strengthening our civic culture. Check us out at ourcivicgenius.org.
Robert Pease (co-host)
And there’s a bunch of other committed non-profits doing great work in the civics space, such as iCivics and the Center for Civic Education, which administers the We the People contest. A more complete list is included in our show notes.
Jillian Youngblood (co-host)
Next time on The Purple Principle, we’re going to look at two of America’s most difficult civic undertakings, the abolition of slavery in the 1800s and the Civil Rights struggle from Reconstruction to the current era.
Robert Pease (co-host)
We’ll be speaking with Dr. Omar Ali, professor of history at UNC Greensboro and the author of In the Balance of Power: Independent Black Politics and Third Party Movements in the United States.
Omar Ali
And what the book basically does is it tells a story of the ways in which African Americans have had to effectively insert themselves into the dominant political structures of society by creating independent political organizations, associations, networks, and parties, in some instances, to advance civil, political, and economic rights of African-Americans and joined at times poor working white people and other groups of people to advance democracy in America.
Robert Pease (co-host)
We really hope you’ll join us then and meantime consider sharing a little civics education in the form of this episode with a friend or colleague. There are links to that and social media in our show notes. And coming soon we’ll be launching bonus material in Patreon, including full length guest interviews and episode previews.
This has been Robert Pease and Jillian Youngblood for the Purple Principle team: Alison Byrne, Producer; Kevin A. Kline Sr. Audio Engineer; Emily Holloway Digital Strategy & Outreach; Dom Scarlett & Grant Sharrett, Research Associates, Emma Trujillio, Audio Associate. Original music composed and created by Ryan Adair Rooney. The Purple Principle is a Fluent Knowledge production.
